in a guns dogfight, i’ll probably give a higher % of kills to the rafale, other than that i’ll back the fa-18’sh
as i said, it will need to be looked at again when rafale gets their upgrades

If what is eventually offered as a standard option is not one’s particular choice selection, I’m sure some would just opt out and go w/ an ‘after market’ customized route.

(TA)DIRCMs are likely going to be hot sellers in short-term anyways. Whether podded or plugged into airframe, the optional competing makes and offerings would probably be able to suit an F-35 operator (assuming there will be demand) by the time any of OZ’s would be IOC?

Don’t be surprised either to see such optional, cued systems equipping legacy tactical aircraft, within the next 2-3 yrs. (if not already available).

sorry but the space is already allocated for the aussie ‘next gen’ oz-dircm is going into the world wide f-35 fleet
i wasnt clear enough for you with, what would the partners want a dircm or a valve kit and extra fire ext that wasnt needed ?
a couple of discussions
http://www.strategypage.com/militaryforums/6-68924.aspx
http://www.f-16.net/f-16_forum_viewtopic-t-12219-postdays-0-postorder-asc.html

or when you want to bag something, never let the facts get in the way
in any case the design isnt locked till 2015

“Rigorous combat analysis revealed that the survivability improvements afforded by the engine fuses and fire extinguishing features were very small,”
“These changes were thoroughly reviewed by the F-35 Operational Advisory Group and approved through the joint JSF Executive Steering Board, which includes membership from all nine JSF partner counties.
All agreed that the weight saved by the elimination of these components would be better utilized in maintaining the performance capabilities of the aircraft.
The present design meets the JSFPO’s expectations for vulnerability.”

if you want to make the point you are trying to, you will need to put up the time line of who said what and when
start with the usa and partners years ago when they didnt want the extra stuff, not with something that seems to be said by a tester this year

Erkokite
i think the rafale has the SH in STR speed because of better T/W
but how did the rafale get past the aim-120’s and aim-9x’s to get behind the SH in the first place ? either or both should be dead by then
(our 25 yr old hornets run a HMS & asraam that would add another dimension to this
because of cost and we want our SH in service asap, we arent putting the asraam on our f-111 replacement SH but 9x-bll shouldnt be too far from our service date)

yes, i’m aware of the f3+ but the next upgrade on from that is the one that impresses me, the one with T5, rcs etc and they may even run a hi-lo with that rafale taking the hi

Since this was a guns only fight, that means exactly zero.
IR AAM maybe, radar AAM doubtful.

if A&C had a decent IR photo, believe me it would be posted, leaving one to assume even in training mode f-22 is IR efficient

“”-In dogfihts the rafale was clearly superior. Rafale pilots told that the SH has an impressive ability to take a lot of angle of attack…Up to 65° in defensive manoeuvres. But that resulted in a lot of energy loss and were then easy prey as the SH tend to “sink” after such manoeuvres””

a question is with HMS and hobs missiles why it would need to use its 65 deg AOA ?
the SH wasnt in dubai but i agree at 65 deg aoa it would be washing speed
its just a shame that a delta wing washes more speed
if the rafale goes into an instantaneous uber aoa it stalls to the point of going backwards at 40kn/~80k
i would say an apple for apple more at rafale 30 deg aoa than a SH would at 30 deg

i think i will back the SH systems/systems/systems/radar/missiles/HMSD and EW sensors at this stage
but it needs to be relooked at come rafales planed F4 upgrades and to what the SH will at that time, Heck the aussies are retirering the SH in 2025, so i hope their F4 2020 date holds
if france throws enough money at the rafale and systems, i see no reason why it shouldnt surpass the SH, as the usn isnt giving it a big developmental budget
its said the aussies will be leading more of the SH potential than the usn

well if you managed to find that, you should be able to find what usa and the partners said and why they are happy