FFS, i’m happy to be shown and a link to back yourself
some of your claims seem very wild to me, eg canards roll at a higher aoa than a hornet
i’m quite happy with a nasa link that show aoa and roll with and without vc
http://www.nasa.gov/centers/dryden/history/pastprojects/HARV/index.html
dear, dear, for someone who lives in australia you know very little
2010 is the time for the fa-18 to replace the f-111
2010 was never a date for the f-35
..typhoon was rejected because we decided the f-35 had greater capability
..our cost for r&d was us$144 mil
..we have the sourse codes we need and are working on our regional software
..we are commited but we havent signed as yet
trying to roll at too high a aoa, it will drop a wing and go into a spin, they called it stalling a wing but if you want it may be loss of vortex lift on one wing
dont tell me, show me with a link to back yourself, again its circle time, canards have higher aoa than the hornet isnt what i have read
Do I agree about what?
Again, you’re pushing for moot spots.Hornet must go beyond 1g envelope (post stall/PS) to reach alpha 55° and then it has such and such rolling ability.
So, what we’re talking about is rolling in PS regime.
I haven’t seen data on Rafale on that, but if I had to guess, I’d say it rolls better at same alpha, due canard position and “smoother” lift falloff after stall point, as opposed to F18.
at 55 deg the hornet cant roll or it will stall a wing, going by what has been said it will roll at 35
mate we go around in circles, its fun if we are taking the mickey out of each other, but you seem to be serious at the moment
for a serious exchange, dont guess and back yourself with a link, so i can clearly understand what you mean
TooCool
i’ll agree with that, its as i understand it, the canards provide higher aoa over just a delta
not real sure about it not being aerodynamic ones you may need to explain what you mean more if you dont agree with 30 and 55
ok lets go with that, do you agree its about 30 for the euro and about 55 for the hornet
25° is a FCS limit for F16, so no we aren’t talking about different things, although you seem to miss the concept of stall and what it means.
Go and type in google “Stall” and spend a day or two learning flight basics.
If you have done a good job, we won’t have this conversation anymore.To talk about alpha at which a plane can roll will mess things even more up, because there is no a point at which a plane can roll normally and at 1° further, it can’t roll anymore.
The rolling ability decreases with alpha increase gradually and actual data on this are even more rare and how do you propose to discuss that when you still don’t get the concept of stall and what happens before a stall point and after?
stall is when the wing doesnt provide lift, do you have a different definition
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stall_%28flight%29
what do you consider the max aoa of the planes so that i know where you are coming from
there is a f35 thread already running and i guess you havent heard about air power australia, kopp and co
no, the max for the f-16 is about 25-27, again we are talking 2 different things
why dont we talk max aoa that you can roll at, its hard to mess the understanding of that up ?
or do you just want to carry on, or can you back what you’re saying with links, then i can read what point you are trying to make
are we talking different things ?
the max angle of attack for a f-22 is 60-70, but it will do 110
a quick google
F-22 Raptor
As an example, Lockheed pilots pulled the nose up to 60 degrees, while going slowly, … using the thrust-vectoring system the F-22 can fly at about a 110 degree angle. The F-22 can have good control at very high angles of attack. …
http://www.area51zone.com/aircraft/f22.shtml –
F-22 Raptor
F-22 Raptor The F-22 is a stealth, air dominance (a rank with the same meaning but a …. Its angle of attack (“alpha”-the angle between the chord line of a … be maintained as 60 degrees, without completely losing the ability to roll. …
http://www.amazing-airplanes.com/fighters/f-22.asp
#
FLIGHT TEST: Dassault Rafale – Rampant Rafale
9 Nov 2009 … The DFCS is a “g” demand system with +9.0g/29° angle of attack (AoA) … My safety pilot for the evaluation was Dassault Rafale project test …
http://www.flightglobal.com/…/flight-test-dassault-rafale-rampant-rafale.html – Cached
#
Rafale
They are all able to perform all types of missions from ground attack to air superiority. … 9 g/-3.6 g, 32° maximum angle of attack, 115 kt approach speed, take off and landing … Sources and Resources. Dassault Aviation : Rafale C …
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/row/rafale.htm – Cached – Similar
F-35 Air Combat Skills Analyzed | AVIATION WEEK
5 Mar 2009 … The F-35’s ability to win an air-to-air engagement is drawing increased … The aircraft can also reach a 55-deg. angle of attack in trimmed …
http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/…/story_channel.jsp?…id…/F35… –
aud 2.9bn was the purchse price with extras, you’re right the 6bn is for everything including personel
http://www.defence.gov.au/media/DepartmentalTpl.cfm?CurrentId=6619
um, the fa18,f-35 doesnt have tv and both have about 55 deg, dont rely on your memory, show a link
i dont remember the air speed, got a link to the 120kts ? or are you making it up
rolling is about 2/3 of max aoa from what i was reading, or a wing could stall
but you are more than welcome to put your view backed by links
would you like to reread what was earlier posted and links given
you may remember it was about 30 deg aoa for the eurocanards and 55 deg for the fa-18,35 and 60-70 for the f-22
is there anything you dont spin ?
the purchase cost was aud 2.9 bn with associated support systems
do you have the extra costs to keep the f111 flying till 2025 over the fa-18f, ?
leaving aside the extra capability that the s/hornet give us, i think it would still be cheap