our raaf claim the asraam is bvr, but not as far as the mica

“”In LOBL, Colonel Moussez said Mica IR could be shot at several tens of miles. “”
can you recheck that maybe LOAL ?, or it will be the only ir sensor that has a 30k true target acquisition range, when everyone else is talking much less

And then, again, according to Capitaine Romain, we know that Rafale can shoot a missile on an emitting target, even with the RBE-2 not emitting. We simply don’t know how and at what range.

this is the 3rd time i’ve agreed with him and if its rf emission, i think its the rwr giving a bearing

This is simply several tactics which allow not to use the position betraying radar.

shame you have to turn the radar off, hopefully the aesa will have some features to fix this
btw what range do you think a given radar will pick a rafale up at

heck if it makes you happy i wont even challenge the 80k even though your navy say the mica ir range is about 20k

so your argument has come down to the mica ir range and nothing to do with the rafales sensors
and that tech is done by how many planes again ?
including our 25yr old hornets

Sintra, I think I remember the AA10 were AA10T or ET, which is not SARH but IR. I’m going to go back a few pages and see if I can find it amongst jackjack’s trolling.

edit: my bad he said ALAMO C which means R27-ER according to wiki. If it is so then the result of the fight would be surprising to say the least…

This site refers to the R27AE as ALAMO C while Wiki refers to it as ALAMO E. Which is right?

Nic

yeah i suppose to some fanboys it would called trolling, when a statement is made that rafale can passively fire a mica ir at 60k
and i ask how and with the subtext answer of ‘because its french’
then i again ask how

The laser range may be around 40km too, but for the TV, yes, around 40km against fighter sized targets, probably more for a Transall for example, etc. The bigger the target is, the easier it is to identify !

ok, and here i was giving more capability to rafale

😀 What about giving your opinion first, before suggesting him to read about a subject he already knows ?

it would be easier if he read your post on your site
http://rafale.freeforums.org/-t43.html

http://blog.francetv.fr/capitaine-romain/index.php/2010/02/10/167251-les-questions-de-corentin

Capitaine Romain says that Rafale can shoot at an emitting target while RBE-2 is not emitting.
Since Mica can be use regardless of its head… The question is “at what range ?”

yes, you have posted and i have answered this, i think using the rwr and flat trajectory missile shot on the bearing, but it seems you accept without asking yourself how

I think you missed his point when he write
The question is whether that makes sense or not in relation with the probability of kill. :

no i agree with this and i said it too not many posts ago in answer to one of your posts, only i dont ask for a probability of a kill and i am just happy with how

It is assumed that OSF TV channel is effective up to 40km or so against fighter-size targets. Beyond that point, target ID is a different story.

You’re missing the IRST channel, which can spot/track hundreds of targets well over 40km. Target infos are fused and correlated with other sensors outputs before being fed into the targetting computer. Once it has a target to play with, you can shoot at it.
So the true question is not whether a fully passive BVR shot is possible. It is (fused OSF+SPECTRA, triangulation from bearing infos over time, MICA IR inertial w/o datalink). The question is whether that makes sense or not in relation with the probability of kill.

no, i would say the osf tv would have a longer range than 40k
i think the 40k refers to the laser distance
do you really want to talk about the osf ir ? i suggest you read up on it first

but there is a simple solution to this, can you give me a link to where the mica ir was tested with tv/ir or/and rwr for a passive shot
or can you tell me without generalising with spectra and use the individual sensors how you think this can be done at or near the full range of mica

no, i think you have read it wrong or i wasnt clear enough
“i have no doubt it wasnt selectivly part quoted”
or
i have no thought or suspision that the selected quotes left out relevant information and is fair to the content of the story that was quoted

ps, thanks for the jpg

The results I gave out [4:0 & 3:1] were when two Rafale took on four Blue Typhoons with a pair of simulated AA-10C Alamo on board
……

The threat that we simulated was of course more dangerous than a real MiG-29 or Su-27 because, even if we played the “AA-10C ATLC SOP model”, shooting only at one target at the same time, we enjoyed the benefit of our system as far as situation awareness was concerned.

there is probably a full text of what he said, but i have no doubt it wasnt selectivly part quoted
as i read it, its a normal rafale using aa-10c missiles, dont you read it this way ? or is ATLC SOP significant

You can’t draw any definitive conclusions with this exercise but to say that you can’t learn anything is equally stupid given the quite precise info we have thanks to all the interviews/press conference etc…

With degraded missile performance, inferiors aicrafts numbers and single target mode the rafale was able to dominate the Typhoon with relatively junior pilots (relatively because I don’t think they would have sent 100% junior/non operational pilots in such an exercise).

That means (in my opinion) that the typhoon enjoys no unfair advantage in m opinion and that rafale SA/discretion might even be better to get close enough to avoid a longer range missile shot. If Typhoon MMI is that good with such a good radar/SA then regardless of the rafale pilots experience the typhoon should have win (at least more times) as it could see first, shoot first and leave first. If the advantage was so big then experience would not be very helpful…Just like against F22s.

It would be interesting to know in which condition the 8-1 for rafale story in corsica was achieved.

in exercises, normally everyone has the same missile and max launch distance
as stated ‘their greater SA’ it could have even included awacs who directed them to come in on the phoons flanks
who knows what the situation was
as i said if this is the story for every encounter then you can build a view of a lower LER for the rafale