Take your pick…..has been accepted common knowledge for over half a century……and can be seen in print in many places.

“Common knowledge” doesn’t quite cut it – I’d prefer a credible reference. Deighton (whose research skills and objectivity are widely respected) cites the turning circles of the 109, Hurricane and Spit as 750, 800 and 880 feet respectively, though these need to be considered in the context of the stresses these different aircraft could safely be subjected to, plus pilot skill.

And if you look at the high scoring RAF Hurricane pilots of the BofB, there certainley wasn’t a low percentage of 109’s in their scores…..it’s a much about the pilots as the a/c.

True to some extent, though given the shortage of RAF pilots and the fact that the overall quality of Luftwaffe pilots in the BoB was higher than that of their RAF contemporaries (considerable experience from the Condor Legion, plus longer & more thorough training) those Hurri pilots did well if they shot down 109s: I’d like to learn more about the spread of Hurricane victories between the bombers against which they were principally targeted, and fighter victims.

Switzerland is a very tightly regulated country. And BTW, is a government which conscripts the entire able-bodied male population into the armed forces “small”?

Yes, it’s quite tightly regulated, though much of what seems to us to be “regulation” stems from the high degree of social consensus among the population, higher than exists IMO in the UK. What seems to us like conformism or subservience to the dictats of the State is just cohesion, shared feelings about how things should be run. And they are, in a profound way, more democratic: there’s a lot of cantonal independence, real local government in which people’s opinions actually count for something.
Re conscription, I see this as a mark of democracy: when everyone (males anyway) is involved in national defence it enhances that national cohesion, sense of self worth, involvement etc. They all (400,000 plus?) keep their military assault rifles (the excellent stgw.90) + ammo at home, too… Rifle shooting is the national sport, great shooting ranges all over: a nation that not only trusts but encourages its citizens to keep weaponry can’t be all bad.

“Those that flew the Hurricane thought that it was better than the Spitfire” and visa versa. From this it would seem that there wasn’t a great deal to separate the Hurricane and Spitfire..

I probably haven’t read as many fighter-pilot autobiogs as some here, but although there is a great deal of affection for the Hurricane and its ability to take a lot of punishment (stringer & fabric construction…) I don’t recall many or any pilots who, having converted from the Hurri to Spits, regretted the move. The Spit was revered as an ultimate “fighter pilot’s aircraft”, and it was of course considerably faster and more manoeverable.
Quoted in Len Deighton’s “Fighter” (extremely useful, generally considered objective) is Dowding to the effect that the top speed of six Hurricanes tested in speed trials was 305mph – the same as the BF110’s cruising speed at 16,400 feet…
The Hurricane was of course used to attack German bombers, while Spits flew anti-fighter cover, but the old Hurri was just too slow even to catch bombers much of the time. Deighton: “Speed was the primary limitation of the Hurricane… Adequate when vectored directly to the enemy formation, it was not much good for chasing a distant enemy. Against enemy fighters it was positively dangerous.”
And I know that Hurricanes accounted for more victories in the BofB than Spits, but that’s numbers – I suspect everyone would agree the RAF’s fighter squadrons would have been vastly more fortunate to have been equipped wholly with Spitfires.

te invito a leer mis vivencias en la guerra de Malvinas

http://misvivenciasenlaguerrademalvinas.blogspot.com/

JOSE LUIS

MOGGY: Translates to “I invite to you to read my experiences in the war of the Falklands”

This has already been kindly provided by reydelcastillo in the “Falklands – What If…” thread, and the (sort of) English language version is at:
http://myvivenciasinthemalvinaswar.blogspot.com/
Our Spanish-speaking correspondents have provided extremely interesting viewpoints and fresh information/photos (those pics of the C-130 with bomb racks!) and one commends their English, so much better than the Spanish (probably) of most English-speaking folk here, but the English version of Sr Eyheramendy’s site appears to be a machine translation – it’s difficult…
It is interesting, but given the concern of correspondents on the other thread to stick to strictly aviation matters, potential readers must be warned that there is a lengthy, heavily politicised, very contentious introduction about how the Falklands are in fact truly, truly Argentinian, but if you can live with that there are indeed some previously unseen photos. I can’t view the videos at present because my PC is playing up, but I’ll certainly be taking a look.

The FAA had received two batches of MIIIEA before the conflict. ….. But those first batch were not capable for Matra 550 Magic lunch. They were only capable for lunching the Matra 530 plus the Defa cannons. The second batch was received in 1981, 8 single seaters capable for Matra 550 Magic I.

My standard source, which I regard as generally reliable since the authors are established & respected and I have not discovered any significant mistakes in their evidence, is the BARG publication Falklands – The Air War (London 1986 – Arms & Armour Press) by Burden et al. On p144 this says the first batch of Mirages in 1972 consisted of 10 III EA single seaters, and 2 III DA twin seaters; a further delivery in 1980 added 7 more III EAs.
All could carry the Matra R530 missile, and the 2nd batch could carry in addition the Matra Magic 550 as you say.
In a different source (I wish I could recall which one, exactly) I read a suggestion that the earliest Grupo 8 sorties, including perhaps those on May 1st, employed Mirages equipped only with the Matra R530 – not the 550 Magic.
Re Creaking Door’s query about Argentine AAM launches, the source I’ve cited above says, “..at least one R530 is known to have been fired by a Grupo 8 pilot at a Sea Harrier on 1 May and it is possible that it was launched at Lt Cdr Ward’s aircraft..”.
In the same book, it is reported that also on May 1st, a Shafrir 2 was launched by Pr Tnte Ardiles flying C-433, before he himself was shot down by Lt B.Penfold flying Sea Harrier XZ455; the Shafrir “was launched at the aircraft of Lt Martin Hale of 800 Squadron..the missile did indeed lock-on to his aircraft and followed him down to 5000 feet until it fell away, either deflected by his chaff or simply at the end of its travel.”
This is echoed by Salvador Mafe Huertas, who interviewed Argentine aircrew extensively after 1982, in his book on the Mirage III/V (London 1990, Osprey) p146: “Ardiles began a shallow dive and launched a Shafrir…Despite being launched outside its normal parameters, the missile successfully locked onto its potential victim, who immediately turned away and dived at high speed in an attempt to evade it..”
I have come across no other mentions of AAM launches at British planes in the conflict. Other commentators have suggested that the Argentine high command might have been better advised to concentrate on the Sea Harrier force to reduce its already small numbers, and the Grupo 6 Daggers might have been able to achieve this, at least technically: their Shafrir-2 missile had proved itself in Israeli service, with 100+ kills against Arab aircraft.

surely that may offend some Germans?

Late on this thread, but there’s a point here – apologies if it’s been mentioned already. I dare say hardened aviation buffs couldn’t care less, but when the Germans have argued in the past that the Brits seemed unnaturally obsessed with WW2 I had some sympathy: all those bloody stupid TV shows like ‘Allo ‘Allo, Colditz, Dad’s Army… It’s stating the obvious to suggest that those on the losing side won’t be quite so keen on hostilities being continually resurrected in movie form, but am I the only one to find it odd – to say the least – that The Dam Busters could be remade? I mean, why? To what cinematic end? I find the prospect embarrassing, no matter how convincingly the Lancs are depicted.
I can dimly recall being taken by my dad to see the original in the mid-1950s, must have been in King’s Lynn since he was stationed at RAF Feltwell at the time. Years ago I read “Enemy Coast Ahead” – must re-read it. I admired the Lanc at the RAF Museum, together with my son: he’s half-German, my wife being from the Ruhr, but he’s interested in aircraft of all kinds. I’ve walked around the Mohne Dam. I recall feeling surprised when my wife’s Uncle Juergen (just old enough to get drafted into the Hitler Jugend, died recently) told me he’d watched The Battle of Britain in an English cinema, and enjoyed it. But I just don’t get the point of a remake – and they’ll be even more baffled in Germany. The raid had little or no strategic effect, though it was a great technical feat and a propaganda success, and courageously executed. Let sleeping dogs lie, i say.

My father attended OCTU at Bircham Newton in, er, round about 1953-ish, so since I was only 3-4 my own memories of it are extremely faint… But neither my father nor my mother ever mentioned anything to do with the supernatural in connection with the place. His first posting when commissioned was down the road at Feltwell, close enough for tales of ghostly happenings to be passed on, but nowt to my knowledge. BTW we lived at Methwold right on the airfield, and I clearly recall the coloured prop spinners on what were probably Proctors. Real ones, not ghostly ones…

Here’s the pic I found of the O-1 with the LAU-3. Anyone have any thoughts? Could the little Bird Dog haul up such a heavy load? (How much does an LAU-3 with 19 rockets weigh? 500 pounds?)

P.S. It’s 1st LT now…… 🙂

Great picture. To my embarrassment, I think I might have been talking rubbish about the LAU-10 Zuni pod – I was thinking of an entirely different type altogether. The LAU-3 is heavy enough, and I suspect the bigger pod would have been too much for the O-2A lete alone the Bird Dog. Interesting enquiry! I hope you get some answers.
hps