GollevainenWords of Ian Anderson me thinks!!!!!!!!!!!
Indeed , from the Jack in the green thats why i posted it on Italics to make difference of my own writing…Did you think i was stealin stuff? I just “sang” little section of it to Holty…
GollevainenWords of Ian Anderson me thinks!!!!!!!!!!!
Indeed , from the Jack in the green thats why i posted it on Italics to make difference of my own writing…Did you think i was stealin stuff? I just “sang” little section of it to Holty…
Gollevainen1. Dumpo Bear
top ten reasons of getting offline from keypublishing forum
10. power cut out
Gollevainen1. Dumpo Bear
top ten reasons of getting offline from keypublishing forum
10. power cut out
GollevainenI am not participate of this debate so I know you are not talk about me.
No problem, but I think you might be wrong that all of them are 15-17, maybe half of them are that ages. But the rest of them are definite over 18, so don’t assumpt too much. And I am definite few years older than you are, so let drop this issue. And BTW I am not insider, but I do choose to stay away. 😀 Peace Golly Peace. 😉
You are right, perhaps I’ve misprhased my past statements…but you see the 15-17 years old are 90% the group that couses the trouples in these kind of threads. We “adults” or nearlike can talk civilized even if we disagree completely wiht each others… 😉
GollevainenOr will these changing times,
motorways, powerlines,
keep us apart?
Well, I don’t think so —
I saw some grass growing through the pavements today
Where there ever snow in this winter over there?
GollevainenOr will these changing times,
motorways, powerlines,
keep us apart?
Well, I don’t think so —
I saw some grass growing through the pavements today
Where there ever snow in this winter over there?
GollevainenBut then what’s with all the talk about china pulling soviet style painting games to make it look like there are more planes then there really are?
If you have an issue with the method people have used to deduce the ‘100+’ J10 figure, go right ahead and pick holes in their reasoning. But pulling arguments out of thin air with no rational to back them up and then trying to pretend you didnt mean what you said afterwards is just bad form.
I didn’t say i didn’t mean it…Perhaps you misunderstand me (and i posted it bit fuzzy way) as i was refering mostly to Crobato. You see the digit confusion is exactly that, confusion. I don’t know if PLA is doing so, nor did i ever state that they are doing so by fact. I threw out a speculation that what if?… If you read my post carefully i said “could it be done?” a question, meaning i don’t know for certain and i ask it from you. I was trying to get the deeps in to these claims and throwing out counterclaims to test their claims solidness. Thats how it’s done with all situations when you try to get something cleary covered. You look trough all possipilityes. Not just beliving one.
GollevainenNO, nO and no. I don’t see there are any bad blood between us. I definite do not have problem with you. I did posted something in this thread before you drop by. I probably respond to your post because I know you, nothing personal . And I did not come along, read post 5 that is the reason I am not active. Also I did responded to copy other members in this thread if you have read more. I still see you as a reasonable person, so I took the time to correct or should we say disagreement with some of things you said and to clear some misunderstanding. No need to worry, I never become personal in forum, and it is childish to pick on someone especially that person is younger than you . Since I am older, why would I want to do that.
Good, i was getting paranoic there…I wasen’t stating that you were…just i felt that some of your text had something hidden between the lines…I’m more than clad that we are cool… 😎
Pointless, that I don’t undestand. Confused, what is so confused about. I just trying to tell you that you are not much older than many people here, and kindly to tell you the reason behind the flame. Well if you do not appreciate in the matter, I would have stop myself from respond from your post anymore. No hard feeling. And let the peace between us, my finnish friend.
Ah i see…but you see i was pointing out that mostly…that leaves exeptions like yourself. I look this whole issue from outsiders wiev and you are on the otherhand sort of “insider”. So quess we both see the issue and it’s reasons bit differently. I’ve been watching these battles from side quite awhile now and often intercepting them. My conclusion is that in the cases were the clash goes most overboard is situations which i mentioned from my first post in this thread. Its just my conclusion over this matter…i could be wrong…
….but this “I call you golly anyway, becouse you are younger than me…”, well let just say i feel much older than i actually are, but thats becouse i’ve been acting almoust as a kindergarden teacher sometimes. I think i’ve just passed (or passing by) the age period when the few years separeting me from the pac that im refering (15-17) really makes a difference…but we finns are so bad in telling about ourself so i gues i just have to leave it to others to judge.
GollevainenAnd what reason would china have for going that? If you have been paying attention to chinese PR attempts for the last couple of decades, you would see that the overwhelming and continuing trend is one of understating their capacities (and budget according to the americans).
The rational for this is obvious – china cant hope to beat the US in an arms race, so china is building its forces up quitely in the hope that the US will not notice or underestimate the PLA’s capacities. Meaning that if china and the US did come to blows over taiwan, the PLA would be able to rely of the element of suprise to try and counter US technological and numerical superiority.
Over stating the PLA’s capacity will be playing right into the american neo-cons’ hands as it would give them more ammo to fight for increased US militaty spending and to further their ‘china threat’ agenda. What possible benefit does over stating give china?
As for wanting pictures of full regements of J10s lined up with their numbers on show and huge plaboards with the base name behind them, well good luck to you! If past trend are anything to go by, you’ll be lucky to chance across one of those sometime in the next decade. Hell, what am I talking about, the PLAAF never releases pics like that.
If such a picture were to show up, then chances are its a fake or a real attempt at misinformation.
But weren’t it us forumlingers that states the 100+ J-10 in service, not chinese government? I remember someone saying that the J-10 hasen’t been officaly even published…So you are parking at the wrong tree…you see if PRC would have decleared that there is a 100+ J-10 in service, then i wouldn’t even been posting on this thread. The issue here is that in my obinion, some of us are iterperating facts bit too blue-eyesly…
…but then again i cannot throw any more counterclaims to support my obinion so i will settle to this….
But hi KYli…we seem to have same achiles heel with both of us…or is it that you just came along when i posted… :confused: …a paranoic man (add other comments of you in other places) could think that you have something in the thoothwhole with me???? Hope it isen’t so…
Your text…
Not entirely true, a lot of people probably older than you and few of them did lived in their countries.
…mine, that you quoted in your post…
mostly
…You see it seems that you are forcing a pointless depate over nothing… :confused:
GollevainenYes it does, providing the right planes are spotted along with the right unit numbers. You have to understand how the PLAAF unit numbers work, and once you do, you can determine what division, regimental and serial unit it is.
First, you have to understand that a PLAAF regiment is around 20 to 40 aircraft. If you spot a plane with regimental colors and unit numbers, yes, its a reliable assumption that it is part of an operational unit and that unit may have numbers up to 40 aircraft. Not all regiments reach 40 though, but we have indeed seen a J-10 with no. 22 for its bort number, which means it is the 22nd serial for its unit. Thus J-10 41252 is going to mean this is the 22nd serial plane of the 44th Division, 131st Regiment located in Kunming.
But could this all been done in deceit in mind? Soviets did play alot with digit numbers back in the cold war…could China just paint new digits over former ones just to mislead western observers? Or distribue few planes to each of these regiments and paint misleading digits that would make others believe that there are far more planes service than there actually is?
Perhaps i’m being just sceptic but this still doesen’t covince me. But i’m quesing we need to wait untill more solid information comes around, like clear pictures showing more than dozen J-10 in a row in some operational base attached to operational regiments….
GollevainenThanks for answering my questions, (i belive Goldendragon, Crobato and Flogger were the ones…)
But The J-10 in service is based on assumptions that if there are certain numbers of engines delivered since 2002, it means there must be similar or near similar nubmers of aircrafts in service. Frankly it sounds bit too whisfull thinking…i mean this “if it’s this, it can also be this” type of logic is always quite fraqile…And the seccond Proof, that there is several J-10 spotted in regimental colours dosen’t actully tell how much planes are in service, does it? It prooves that the plane is far more ahead than lets say LCA, but again it’s kind of farfetched to make assuptions only based for that…
GollevainenAfter the qualification, I decided to not the watc the race…whats the point If raikkonen had to start from the last line?…well it proved out to be wrong decission…man, if Mclaren works trougth the season, there isent any doupt of the next championship title…
GollevainenAfter the qualification, I decided to not the watc the race…whats the point If raikkonen had to start from the last line?…well it proved out to be wrong decission…man, if Mclaren works trougth the season, there isent any doupt of the next championship title…
GollevainenThis Indian vs. Chinese comparison is all in it’s sillyness and uncostructivness sort of achiles heel of me…Mainly becouse I just cannot belive and swallow some of the claims made in both side. And it’s like a unclean spot to those maniac-cleaners…you just have to go and whipe it off…
The most ridicilous aspect in it is that mostly the participant are teenagers, only herritages from either land, not actually living there, making comments and countercomments behalf either country. It is like these countryes are somesort of fantasylands to guys that are perhaps bullyed from racist reason and they now seek some sort of escape to either countrys glorious military power. The funny thing is that it usually goes on this pattern, Indians quite naivisly boast about their military equipment and chinese side just flips. It seems that the India is real red cloath to these “chinese” kids and they just cannot handle the boasting of India…so then we end up threads like these…
Perhaps it’s just too hard to undersstand to guy like me living up here in the norht…but this whole versus thing is just silly….
…but like achiles, all great champions have their soft spots so… 😉
…may i ask few question?????
1) The J-10 flies in regimental colors and there are scores if not a hundred single seaters flying versus 4 single-seat prototypes of the LCA. Are you kidding me? A non-comparison if there ever was one.
What is the main source of this supposed 100+ J-10 in service? I’ve heard lots of rumours about it and asked many times, but still nothing covincing hasen’t shown out…Can someone really proof this? I mean really give some hard data that J-10 is other than just in pre-production? I’m not asking this to bash chinese side, just to make it clear so that statements like the above could be really proved to thrut…
2) The J-10B flies. The LCA two-seater is currently vaporware. Let’s see a comparison between at least two Chinese aircraft that fly versus an Indian drawing of a two-seater on paper
Is there any other pics about the J-10B than those afully-too-much photshopping-smelling ones posted in various internet forums?
3) China’s aviation industry has exported a wide list of aircraft: Y-5, Y-7, Y-8. Y-12, H-5, H-6, J-6, J-7, JJ-5, JJ-6, JJ-7, K-8, CJ6A, Z-5, Z-9 used by nations from Asia to Africa and a few in South America. India can’t even export to its own neighborhood and most of the air forces surrounding India (Pakistan, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, Myanmar) have Chinese aircraft. A non-comparison where the Chinese side side sells hundreds and the Indian one sells a big fat zero.
So have china sold any warplanes to non-thirdwolrd country? Aside from K-8, is there any truly indegenious warplane exported?
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