8. Siwa

6. Fazer Domino

What you wrote is almost indentical to what i was repeating a few times already. My links refered it almost the same but in a more interesting manner. Why didn’t you read what i wrote?

Your links showed some indicators to this yes, but they did, at best explain only some of the proximate reasons how chinese downfall came. Neither there was any indications to the comparision this devolpment to European one, nor there was any indications that you would have understand it yourself

Well, In theory there is only one way and that is world revolution. But in practice even Leninism-Marxism has proven to be a failure while Marxism was a complete flop in real life

Marxism hasent been flop at all?? What make you think so? Only Marxism-leninism or practically, a state which conducted it went wrong. Russia wasent really ready for its choice, and thougth Lenin have to rewrite some theoryes, mostly there were considering power and controll mechanism during the revolution process. This was first time revolutionar movments had got some sort of basis to their works, but still Lenin failed to came up a solution to prevent the revolution to eat its childrens…
Good example is finnish history when Our sosialist tryed to make revolution. they instantly set up an expermental and really advanced democratic system that would have suprassed all systems used sofar. But as the bourgerous counter actions let to bitter and bloody civil war, their power structure was too slow to make fast decissions of the war situation and this eventually lead onto riff between the revolutionar goverment and the leadership of revolutionar army. And whit this drift, the red guards were unable to use their technical superiority over whites with better leadership and it all ended up in massacure of some 40,000 finns. A big number to compare our total population of that time.

Marx have managed to predict all phases of capitalism, and even rigth win economist still use his terms when speaking of their own system. Engels once wrote that, its wery likely that firts sosialist state burst up in some place where they aren’t ready for it, they prosper, then fall and communist will be seen as monsters and demons afterwards.

Neither was Maosim. That some theory Mao just woke up and throught himself. It was somethig which had evoled over the three different militry bases. Jiangxi Soviet to Yuannan base then to manchuria. This was all developed on the way with practical experience. This was not just siting in a room then just writing down thoughts it was practical experinece ained with these bases

And this devolpment showed its failure when these masterminds started their great leaps towards and all sort of cultural revolutions…If china would have been led trough Soviet ways, China migth be at the moment, a true superpower, close to domination…

Marxism-Leninism was the product of practical experience but only so because Marx predicted alot of crazy things that wouldn’t happen. So lenin had to change the theory and ways to achieve in in his own interuptation

Crazy stuff?? Man, I will love to hear bit more of your thougths on this matter :rolleyes:

Well it was a rumour, more spesific about the fact that the blueprints helped chinese to produce more improved and stable airframe in general aviotion production standards as the orginal J-8 would have lacked in that field…

10. Internet

I read the post you told me to read and you didn’t make it so clear. What i interrupted it as was
“When any empire beguns to fight against devolpment and progress of human evolution, they are going wrong”

Is that your point?

Well part of it, well In brief, China didnt become dominat global player instead of Europe, couse its geography was too favourable to early unification and centralization thus creating faovorable conditions of philospohyes that supported authorithanity and isolation, that lead eventually to stagnation and isolation and when there werent potent foreing threads, innovative citicens become more a thread to the state than helpfull acpect agaisnt outside enemyes. This lead to decay in the science and innovative thus letting Europe from opposite conditions to envolp more stronger and eventually spread their power to all over the globe.

In Europe, the geographical conditions allowed smaller hegemonies to stay longer in power and to compete against each others thus creating more vivid scientifical culture and innovates. It become almoust a rule that those kings and princes who didnt allow innovatives to become general, were eventually suprassed by those who were ready to accept new ideas.

It didn’t mean any short cuts but two different ways to achieve communism.

But in reality there is only one mechanism to achieve it…

I have to disagree. red october was a impluse the russian revolution was a impluse, The collectiztions in russia were a impluse. Like i said before the chinese communist already established their own little commune system in yunnan and wanted to impement it on a larger scale. One of the main factors that made it not work was the sheer scale of the project. Farmers were told to grow wheat in the snow. farmers were told to use twice as much wheat seeds in one paddock. China was diverting as much man power to steel and industrial production as had been allocated to arigculture. Plus the natural disaters that also wreaked havoc. If those policies were worked out for local conditions and less centralized planning it would have functioned a lot better

The actions of Russian revolution were impulses but the theoryes were born before that. You ahve to remeber that Bolsevics werent the sole ignators of revolution in Russia. Marxism-Leninism was more of product of practical experience to expand the idea of revolution and sosialistic chanching phase, thougth involving elements of Soviet collapse in ideas like ‘proletartian dictature’ that was and is a necceserity in revolution, but afterwards too stressing element that leads to failure of the system.

3. Fokker D.XXI in Winter war…

Entertainment is always a product of a prosperous society. Only the technology of entertainment changes. Two thousand years ago, we have gladiators, today, we have the WWE.

If you ever played the Simcity games, entertainment is actually a social factor you need to instill in a society to keep its citizens happy and productive. Of course,there is always something negative when you take entertainment too far.

The arts, which is also related to entertainment, is also essential in social and cultural development. The arts and technology are two fields that are heavily interconnected. Whenever you find plenty of art, you also find plenty of technology. And once again, there is also a collaborative factor between entertainment, art and technology.

well entertaiment it self migth not numb people, but the ammount of time we use just to amuse ourselves…and it wouldnt be so bad if we choose our amusment in ways that it make us think, but when we constantly just turn our brains off and start watch TV or listen some cheap pop music, we eventually amuse ourselves to death, like Rodger Waters wrote…Reading serious literacy and listening music whit saying, is much better, I would just wish that TV and movie industry would afford us more braintwisting to watch… Offcourse sometimes its good just go whit the flow and forget theinking, but not all the time…

Who is to say that many of our collective technological ideas for example, originated from science fiction, which is of course, a literary art meant to entertain.

But then of speaking of art, its not the same thing. Supposedly art should have always been done for the art or for the aritst himself, not for public’s pleasure, and science-fiction, thougth normally regarded as entertaiment, is more close to ‘real’ literacy than most people think. At least sci-fi that i tend to like are the ones that makes you really use your brain and feel yourself bit stubid as you didnt understand it so clearly, challenging one i I would say…

Generally in a society that has become prosperous, it leads to entertainment, then art and technology. And it is a self reinforcing cycle.

Well art seems to appear in any form of inteligent human life, its not just prosper’s side effect, but entertaiment is, At least i think so a related to the system and dependaple to it as you said also. But art in its pureness can be quite opposite, more an anti-system in nature, thougth beeing anti-something usually generates from that somethingh and by means of dialectism is same thing, at least in orgins. But I want to believe in pure art that rises from individual consicuense of man, thougth otherwise I tend to think human as product of collective, not individual organism… But art migth be the sole way of finding your true self, and only working way of processin yourself solely out from any society. To this point nobody have managed to do that but its another thing… :rolleyes:

One classic element why empires fall is because of being overstretched. You are too big for your britches. In fact, China at the decay of the Qing Dynasty was an exceedingly big country since it covers territory right up to Siberia like Lake Baikal, Port Arthur, and the Amur region.

To control an empire you need a big bureaucracy and military. Both factors require a lot of money. And once you lose the money tap, the decay sets in, as you would have problems maintaining both your massive bureaucracy and military.

But there have been big empires like US, that arent (att least yet) falling due
controll proplems…And in modern world, thechnology can In my mind override this factor.

In fact, while an empire may have expanded and became an empire because of war, war is the last thing it needs to sustain. Obviously it will break your wallet. The last kind of war you can ill sustain is a guerilla type of war that goes on for years and years, where attrition, not just by personnel, but by the sheer cost of war.

But empire its all about hegemony, and agressive hegemony in a way that You cannot build empire whitout braking other hegemonies,a nd doing that it leads to wars…and when you have destroyed all rivaling powers, there alwyas finds neighbours that have their own hegemony and will not let it go whitout figth. And if theorethically you ahve conquered all and there isent diversing elements from societyes vertical dimensions (other societyes, civilications) left, the horizontal elements (classes, castes) beguns to couse stress as their nature is to couse stress.