I really wish Canada would either Poop or get of the Pot! this is How I see it.

1. They Complain about the F-35s range but, are considering the shorter ranged ( Internal fuel) Griffen SH, Typhoon.

.2 They complain about price, but are considering the Typhoon, or F-15SE

3. They are complaining about capabilities, but the F-15SE Is Not fully developed ( where are the canted tails) and the Typhoon barely has and AESA and a pathetic A2G capability.

4. They are complaining about the single engine but would consider the griffin

I would Like to see the F-15SE development costs, set up costs and maintenance costs projected over 50 years.

I deep down think that the danish are skittish on the F-35 and might go for a cheaper alternative. I also think that we will get a nice dose of heads rolling and Hand ringing, the minute their cute little Girffin/F-16 has to intercept
a Russian T-50, or the next gen Russian bomber. its likely they wont know its there until it pulls up along side them.

This discussion has become an exercise in silliness. There is not 1 thing a su can do that the F-22 cannot. We have plenty of things a F-22 can do that the Su planes dream about. Bacck to topic please.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTypIHLqG2I

Just out of curiosity, whats the MAX AOA of Griphen, EF, and Rafale?

The comparable unit cost of Typhoon is somewhere south of £73m, let alone $120 m, and certainly no where near Spitfire9’s stupid figure of $300m.

A figure that ought to be easily agreed is £73 m – ($116 m as of today), though it’s not accurate as a UPC. (see below)

It’s inaccurate as a true UPC because £73m is calculated on a resource accounting basis, and includes certain programme costs that would not normally be included.

The T2 contract (signed on 14 December 2004) was €13Bn for 236 fighters. This makes €55.08 m per aircraft. On that day the exchange rate meant that one pound was worth €1.448687 – making the Tranche 2 UPC £38,023,911.14.

That is the UK UPC as paid and as such is unarguable.

Scorpion kindly provided figures of €4.18 bn for Germany’s 68 T2 Typhoons and €1.132 bn for Austria’s 18 T2 Typhoons.

That equals €61.47 m for each german T2 Eurofighter and €62.88 m for each Austrian EF. This is the fly-away cost for the T2 EF for these countries.

When the NAO used to produce proper UPCs they were aproximately £45 m for Tranche 1 and £42.42 m for Tranche 2 (including VAT).

SUPPLEMENTARY EVIDENCE FROM THE MINISTRY OF DEFENCE
TYPHOON PAC HEARING

Q23. Variations in Unit Cost of Typhoon (£73.2M v £120M).

As was evident from the Hearing, different methodologies for calculating Unit Cost can produce significantly different results.

The Unit Cost of £73.2M (an increase of 26%) given at the Hearing uses the methodology agreed by the NAO for the Major Project Report (MPR) process, where the NAO then validate the costs as part of that exercise. This methodology removes the Development costs and Cost of Capital Charges before dividing the Production phase costs by the aircraft off-take.

Development costs are removed to reflect that they are sunk costs from a separate phase of the project. The calculation used by the NAO in the Value For Money study report does not follow the MPR methodology. The inclusion of Development costs in effect creates a supplementary increase in Unit Cost because it penalises rather than recognises the increased effectiveness of reduced, more capable, aircraft numbers. Whichever methodology is chosen, the key points are that NAO analysis (para 2.4 of the Value For Money report) confirms production costs as being similar to comparable types of aircraft, and that we are paying the right price.

Translation: Lets spin the numbers that paint the EF in the best light possible.

I have a few things to point out since this is the F-35 debate thread:

1. Why do people keep saying the Typhoon is a better value than the F-35?
The Typhoon costs more than a F-22 with less capability! No AESA yet, barely any A2G! No jamming!
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/03/03/eurofighter_nao_analysis/

“This shows the acquisition cost of the Eurofighter/Typhoon in an even worse light than it had previously appeared, when an RAF fleet of 160 had been expected. It is now acknowledged that the development and production cost to the UK of Eurofighter will be £23bn with planned upgrades.

This means that we UK taxpayers will have shelled out no less than £215m for each of our 107 jets – that’s $350m at today’s rates, rather more than the US taxpayers have been made to pay for each of their 185 Raptor superfighters”

The F-35 is 120 Mill in upcoming lots the Tiffy is 300+ million!

2. Why are people claiming the a F-15SE is a better value?:
If you put conformal weapons bays on the thing, then it barely out ranges a F-35.
If use the conformal tanks for fuel, then whats the purpose of making it stealthy? All of this for 100 million +

3. Why is the F-18 a better value when it will be nearly worthless in a high threat environment? If I have to use 2 planes and 3 pilots per target how is that cheaper? Further more the F-18 wont be able to hold a candle to a S-300 without heavy use of stand off weapons. The U.S. will probably have an inventory of 10k jassm. The U.S. could conceivably Hit 2000 targets a night, Just using B-2, B-51s, Ohios, and B-1s . It wont be long before the best smart weapons are used up, and the force has to switch to jadam.
Over China/Taiwan there will be no shortage of targets.

What Good is a F-18 with Only Jamming escorts and Jadam?