mavaustinsorry to burst your bubbles guys, but the deal hasn’t been signed yet, just approval by the Indian govt which means like any other deals govt might retract it due to possibilities of bribes and scandals.
By the same logic of F-16 someone used, wouldnt these subs be obselete by the time you guys get them :rolleyes:
mavaustinBlue prints are not US hard drives from a nuclear facility that get stolen and then found in a waste basket :rolleyes:
mavaustinA Q Khan was never involved in missile technology or production. all he is/was a metallurgist. :rolleyes:
mavaustinPlease read this first, –
Copyright © Vijainder K Thakur. May not be reproduced without explicit written permission
SOURCE (BABUR missile analysis)
http://kuku.sawf.org/Articles/2111.aspx
-Mod
mavaustinI am sure pakistan had foreign help, but not to the extent of buying foreign equipment and just simply installing it and hoping it would work. If you guys remember last year there was a news article that south african govt was doing an investigation on some of its scientists who worked for a defence contractor and were involved in secretly selling technology and helping pakistan in design and development of some missile components. I had that report but cant seem to find it.
mavaustinin a way this confirms about MUPSOW presence as well.
mavaustinstar49…
once again you are making uneducated guesses, please don’t start a rumor.
mavaustinwe don’t know how fast these cruise missiles are, no specs yet so no speculations there.
Today one of the pakistani news papers have reported that pakistan is about to test a new or an improved missile but no confirmations yet from the military sources.
mavaustinany doubts left lord?
Cruise missile Babur successfully test fired
Musharraf greets nation, scientists
Agreement with India does not cover advance information of Cruise missile tests
Aroosa Alam/APP
Rawalpindi—Pakistan today conducted a successful test flight of its first ever Ground Launched Cruise Missile – (GLCM) Hatf-VII Babur, designed and developed by an elite team of scientists and engineers of Pakistan’s strategic organisations. By the Grace of Allah, all design parameters for the flight were validated.
Babur cruise missile has the capacity to carry nuclear and conventional warheads to a range of 500 kilometers with pinpoint accuracy. It is terrain hugging missile, which has the most advanced and modern navigation and guidance system and a high degree of maneuverability. The technology enables the missile to avoid radar detection and penetrate undetected through any hostile defensive system, says an ISPR press release. By conducting the successful test, Pakistan has joined a select group of countries which have the capability to design and develop cruise missiles. Cruise missiles can also be launched from surface ships, submarines and aircraft. The ground launched cruise missile – (GLCM) Hatf -VII Babur is not only comparative with modern missile systems of the world, but also superior to these. It is a highly effective and trustworthy weapon due to its extraordinary characteristics, PTV reported.
Babur cruise missile is launched vertically with the solid booster motor. Immediately after the launch its guidance and control system takes over. The missile gains speed and after a few seconds its rocket booster motor is separated.
Then, the missile automatically opens its wing as a jet plane, and moves towards its target speedily and accurately. Later, the missile culminates its mission from a specific height from land. Due to this it remains undetected and saved from radar system of the enemy. The missile crosses all hurdles on its way due to computerized programming and moves towards the target, protecting itself from anti-aircraft line of the enemy. Special cameras installed in the missile, control and manage its height by minutely monitoring ups and downs of land. After recognising the target the missile hits its target instantly. Babur cruise missile has the capacity to carry nuclear and conventional warheads to a range of 500 kilometers with pinpoint accuracy. President General Pervez Musharraf and Prime Minister Shaukat Aziz have congratulated the nation, engineers and their staff on successful cruise missile test. President Musharraf said the test was a “major milestone” in the country’s nuclear programme, a statement said issued here on Thursday.
The scientists and technicians involved had “again done the nation proud by mastering a rare technology”, he said.
President Musharraf described it as a great stride in Pakistan’s defence capability and a gift to the nation on the eve of Independence Day.
“We are proud of this achievement, we shall never let our deterrence level come down and today’s test also manifests our resolve to further reinforce our defence capabilities,” he told newsmen at the Aiwan-e-Sadr.
Replying to a question, the President said Pakistan maintains balance in both conventional and unconventional fields.
“This successful test-fire of 500 km range nape of the earth missile will further improve the existing military balance in the region,” he said in response to a question about the recent developments vis a vis acquisition of advanced weapons system in the neighbourhood.
He paid rich tributes to the scientists for their hardwork and unstinted dedication to developing the new weapon system, which is undetectable and capable of hitting the targets with pinpoint accuracy.
“Our scientists deserve tremendous appreciation for totally indigenous development of the missile.
“Pakistan is a country on the rise, our defence and economic pillars are strong and we are moving forward to sustainable development,” he said, referring to the importance of the cruise missile development for the country’s defence.
Director General Inter Services Public Relations Maj. General Shaukat Sultan said Thursday that successful test of cruise missile Hatf-VII Babur speaks country’s high commitment with its defence.
It is a milestone achievement which reflects the determination and resolve that Pakistan will not only maintain its strategic capability but will continue improving it, the ISPR DG told PTV in a telephonic interview.
He said the strong missile system is an integral part of country’s defence adding the new missile is capable to penetrate hostile air defence systems.
While congratulating all the scientists, engineers, strategic organizations and the entire nation he said it is a historic day in country’s defence field.
Shaukat Sultan made it clear that an agreement reached between Islamabad and New Delhi over the weekend on pre-notification of missile tests does not cover cruise missiles.
“Pakistan is not liable to inform neighbouring countries about the latest test of cruise missile, as the agreement on pre-notification of ballistic missiles, which has been finalised, does not cover pre-notification of cruise missile tests,” he added.
Federal Minister for Information and Broadcasting Sheikh Rashid Ahmed Thursday said test-firing of cruise missile by Pakistan should not be a matter of concern for India as the peace process between the two countries would move ahead.
Talking to newsmen here, the Minister said Pakistan wanted to resolve all issues with India peacefully but it could not remain oblivious to its defense needs.
Pakistan would improve its missile technology, he added.
The Minister said test-firing of the cruise missile was a gift to the nation on the Independence Day and birthday of President General Pervez Musharraf.
The missile test met all the set parameters and hit the target accurately, he said adding the achievement would strengthen the country’s defence and infuse a new spirit in the nation.
mavaustinlord
you wanted to see JF-17 fly, and you saw it, you wanted to see agosta being built and you saw it, you wanted to see khalid in production and we fulfilled that request as well, and you will see babur being launched out of agosta also while its submerged….. no one cares, specially not those soldiers who will be hit by it where this cruise missile was being designed tested and delivered by and how much paid for :rolleyes:
mavaustinPakistan Test Fires Nuke-Capable Missile
By SADAQAT JAN
.c The Associated Press
ISLAMABAD, Pakistan (AP) – Pakistan on Thursday test fired its first cruise missile, a weapon that can carry nuclear and conventional warheads, a test it conducted without notifying archrival India, officials said.
The missile, named Babur, has a range of 310 miles. The launch site was not disclosed.
The Foreign Ministry said Pakistan did not inform India, as an agreement formalized between the two countries over the weekend on pre-notification of missile tests does not cover cruise missiles.
There was no immediate reaction from India.
Cruise missiles are typically low-flying guided missiles that use jet propulsion to allow sustained flight.
The military statement said the Babur missile flies parallel to the surface of the ground, can hit its target with “pinpoint accuracy” and can be fired from war ships, submarines and fighter jets.
“The technology enables the missile to avoid radar detection and penetrate undetected through any hostile defensive system,” it said.
Army spokesman Maj. Gen. Shaukat Sultan said Pakistan has joined the few countries “that can design and make cruise missiles.”
The missile test agreement is part of confidence-building in a peace process between the South Asian rivals, which have fought three wars since independence from Britain in 1947. They also agreed at the weekend to set up a hot line next month to help prevent accidental nuclear conflict.
———————————————–
By Robert Birsel
Thu Aug 11, 5:37 PM ET
ISLAMABAD (Reuters) – Pakistan successfully tested its first nuclear-capable, ground-launched cruise missile on Thursday without informing rival India in advance, a Pakistani military spokesman said.
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Nuclear-armed rivals Pakistan and India reached an agreement last week to inform each other about missile tests but the spokesman, Major-General Shaukut Sultan, said India was not told about the test because the new Babur missile is not a ballistic missile.
“We don’t have to inform neighboring countries in this case. It is not a ballistic missile and it doesn’t fall under the agreement,” he said.
The Babur, which has a range of 500 km (310 miles), is a terrain-hugging missile that can avoid radar detection and strike with pinpoint accuracy, the military said.
“By conducting the successful test, Pakistan has joined a select group of countries which have the capability to design and develop cruise missiles,” the military said in a statement.
Pakistan and India tested nuclear weapons in 1998.
President Pervez Musharraf hailed the test as a milestone in Pakistan’s quest to strengthen and consolidate its strategic capability and said it improved the military balance with India.
The United States said it was not concerned about the test. A State Department spokesman said it was not a surprise, but did not elaborate.
“It’s important to us that actions by states on the subcontinent are done in ways that aren’t provocative, in ways that aren’t threatening. I think that by all accounts the test met that criteria,” State Department spokesman Adam Ereli told reporters.
‘VERY SIGNIFICANT’
Pakistan’s desire to develop cruise missile capabilities has been known for several years, said Robert Karniol, Asia-Pacific editor for Jane’s Defense Weekly.
While the Babur’s payload capacity — and the weight of Pakistan’s nuclear weapons — were not known, cruise missiles would be a significant boost to Pakistan’s arsenal, he said.
“These kinds of capabilities, particularly the submarine-launched missile, are very significant strike weapons,” he said.
“We can expect that some time in the future they will turn their attention to developing a submarine-launched system.”
Pakistan has eight operating submarines, including two Agosta 90-Bs built with French help, a navy spokesman said.
India already has submarine-launched cruise missiles.
Musharraf said the Babur, with its 500-km (310-mile) range, was superior to the Indian Brahmos cruise missile, which has a range of 290 km (180 miles).
Pakistan would maintain a military balance with India even if India acquired high-technology U.S. weapons such as the Patriot missile system, he said.
“There was talk of India getting Patriot missiles and there was a feeling that there was an imbalance which is being created because of the purchase of very advanced technology weapons,” he told reporters.
“Let me say this improves the balance. Whatever balance existed, it further improves the balance. So that is the significance of the Babur missile that we fired,” he said.
_______________________________________________________________
I think these two articles should be sufice to say that pakistan’s ultimate goal is to have a submarine and ship launched cruise missile. 😀
mavaustinnone of the news reportings have mentioned speed. It cannot be supersonic. it doesnt matter whether pakistan built it on its own or bought and painted it. the significance of this test and missile is the whole strategic situation changes.
tracing a balistic missile is easier for any given path for the ABM to take it out but cruise missile changes all of this. For Indian military this missile can be quite a headache since the launch site cannot be figured out and once this missile is airborne there is no stopping.
As the animated video shows the lowering of airintake and wings unfolding is quite a design. This makes the missile very compact and can be fired easily from the subs. Once the Agosta’s are equiped with these the whole ball game changes.
PN has been looking for nuclear capability for quite sometime. pakistan’s naval strategy has been changed and they are making changes slowly.
mavaustinQuestion : How hard is reverse engineering an Engine ??
its not about the propulsion technology itself but also the metalargy part which is tricky, blade technology is also a very high precion engineering so its not that easy to copy an engine and chinese havent mastered it successfully.
That is why there is a huge difference between russian and western engines.
mavaustinRs 4 crore down the drain in development of LCA
By Madhuprasad N
DH News Service Bangalore:
The CAG, in its audit report, said two data recorders were purchased while only one was necessary.
The Comptroller and Auditor General of India (CAG) has objected to excess expenditure on procurement of equipment for the prestigious Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) project and has sought an explanation from the Ministry of Defence.
The CAG in its audit report 2004 has said lack of co-ordination among Defence Research Development Organisations (DRDO), undertaking the LCA project, led to procurement of two High Density Data Recorders (HDDRs) and thus, unnecessary expenditure of over Rs 4 crore. While only one was necessary, they purchased two and placed order for two more. According to the CAG report, the design and development of the LCA has been entrusted with the Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA), Bangalore, and the principal partner for the production is Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL). The Centre for Airborne Systems (CABS), a DRDO laboratory, is one of the work centres.
Purchase proposal
The development of the LCA involved, among other things, tests on Hack aircraft where HDDRs are used to record flight parameters.
In July 1996, CABS initiated a proposal to purchase a recorder from Ampex, a US-based company. ADA took over the proposal and placed a supply order with the firm in November 1998. The order was however cancelled in January 2001 following US sanctions. As HAL was not on the ‘sanctions list’ of the US Government, ADA requested HAL in July 2000 to procure the item. HAL placed an order on Ampex for supply of the recorder at a cost of $ 6,40,890 (Rs 2.81 crore) and received them in October 2001. The Ampex was in turn issued to CABS in November 2002 and installed on Hack aircraft in January 2003.
In the meantime, on the grounds that Ampex recorders from the US could not be purchased due to sanctions, CABS had placed an order for supply of a recorder with Enertec, France, in December 1999. The recorder was purchased at a cost of Rs 1.84 crore in August 2000 and received on June 2001.
The Auditor General (AG) in June 2001 questioned the necessity for procuring two HDDRs for the same project by two different organisations. In its reply, CABS stated that the Enertec recorder would complement and build up their flight test lab, whereas the Ampex recorder was to complement the HAL facilities. This was untenable, the CAG report said.
The CAG, in its report, has observed that if the Ampex recorder was procured exclusively for HAL, there was hardly any necessity to transfer it to CABS, where it was installed on Hack aircraft and trials were on.
Moreover, the Enertec recorder, which was received earlier than the Ampex recorder, was not installed as of October 2003.
Not certified for LCA
ADA had itself stated to the AG in November 2001 that the Enertec recorder was only for transport aircraft environment such as Hack aircraft, and was not certified for LCA environment, and that the Enertec recorder could not be fitted on the LCA.
Further, both CABS in December 2001 and controller of Defence Accounts (Research and Development) in January 2002 had contended that the preliminary flight trials of MMR (Multi Mode Radar) would start on Hack aircraft and thereafter, trials would be conducted on Hack aircraft and LCA simultaneously, for which two recorders would be required.
However, the fact that the Ampex recorder was installed on the Hack aircraft instead of the Enertec recorder, which was received earlier, does not lend credence to the replies of ADA, CABS and CDA (R&D) the CAG report says.
mavaustinmost likely its carried externally, Nose carries the larger Grifo-M radar anyway. PAF F-16s also use SAGEM FLIRS.
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