mavaustinUS team due shortly to
work out F-16s sale: Crocker
By Muhammad Saleh Zaafir
ISLAMABAD: US Ambassador to Pakistan Ryan Crocker has said a team of US experts would visit Islamabad shortly to work out details of the sale of multi-role F-16 fighter jets to Pakistan.
In an interview with The News, the envoy said no ceiling for the supply of the planes has been fixed and Pakistan is free to decide on any number according to its requirements. The ambassador said the package of $3 billion assistance announced by President George W Bush in 2003 could be used for purchase of the planes.
“President Bush has granted special permission for this purpose,” he added. The mode of the payment, avionics and other systems to be fitted in the planes would also be determined after discussion by experts of the two countries. “Since the planes are to be manufactured afresh, I cannot give a timeframe for the start of supply,” he said in response to a question.
Pakistan will also get weapons for its Army and Navy, including choppers, C-130 and other planes. Crocker said Pakistan and the United States are enjoying best political relations. “Washington has throughout been eulogising the role Pakistan and President Gen Pervez Musharraf are playing for elimination of terrorism and extremism in the region.
For this reason the United States wishes to see the country and its people prosper and strengthen.” Responding to another query, the US envoy said presidents of the two countries frequently keep in touch with each other by telephone.
“I have no information about a recent contact between the two after or immediately before the call of President Bush to the Indian prime minister on the question of supply of F-16s to Pakistan,” he added.
mavaustinwe are discussing PAF here, I would suggest we should open a thread titled, “India finally acknowledged as a nuclear state”
mavaustindemocracy or no democracy fact of the matter is PAF is getting F-16s, so lets move on and discuss what is on PAF’s shopping list.
Its obvious that with the new F-16s, PAF will buy AIM120 or it defeats the purpose of having an advance aircraft. PAF is also interested in JDAMS.
By the way Pakdef is also reporting that PAF’s blinders that have the ECM/ESM suite also went through an upgrade and PAF is interested in buying two more, most likely from France.
mavaustinok..ay NV. 😉
mavaustinthe whole purpose to getthe non-NATO ally membership was to avoid all this. Secondly in Pakistan so called govt officials do not know about military hardware developments, like US, Pakistano do not discuss hardware R7D on a senate approval committee hearings.
Anyway, you can make whatever you want out of these news :rolleyes:
mavaustinGolden Arrow
If JF-17 is having an engine problem then I guess all Mig-29s of the IAF is having the same issue!?
The issue JF-17’s engine had was the smoking issue. It was reported on pakdef via usman who had contacts with the JF-17 team that Chinese use a different grade of gas than the NATO standard, what PAF uses.
secondly recent news on kanwa indicated that the smoking issue was resolved by some structural changes. I believe that news was posted on AFM as well.
All the people who are suggesting Jf-17 will scrapped are day dreaming. PAF has invested enough money in it and this is to boost local aviation industry, same way Chinese industry was started back in 60s and 70s.
PAF strategy for is to have two front end aircraft, most likely a western platform, hence the F-16 sale and one of Chinese origin, which would be J-10 with some French avionics. Even Kanwa reported that PAF pilots have test flown J-10 for evaluation. But, with Erieyes Grippen might still be in the running as a package deal.
JF-17 would be the medium to post-medium technology and then F-7PG and Mirages. All this would be aided and force multiplied with Erieye which will be announced by summer as different news articles have suggested.
Older version of F-7s might be sold to other nations or can be used for OCU units. A-5s will be taken out of the inventory pretty soon.
E2C Haweye 2000 is also in the running, but its not a matter of which one as compared to Eieyes, rather a question of the numbers of each. PAF has test flown the Erieyes in Pakistani weather and terrain and deal has been finalized, its a matter of time when they announce the deal The same was the case with F-16s. This deal was struck back in last August-September time frame, thats why at the last DCG meeting F-16s didn’t even come up as a topic.
Condi Rice’s trip to South Asia was to iron out the political fallout due to this deal vis-a-vis india cause obviously US didn’t wanna pissed off indians completely even though they are at the moment.
Condi’s trip was also to discuss the proposed oil pipelines from the central asian countries via Pakistan to the international market where Unocol has a major or only chunk of investment. But, this is not the place and time to discuss this.
Getting back to F-16s. This sale would be 2 phased, and the second phase is divided into further 3.
Phase I: Buy old F-16s from the storage, and get them through MLU upgrades in the US. Mean while Lockheed Martin will conduct a MLU upgrade at Kamra in Pakistan for the current 32 F-16s.
Phase IIa: Buy 40 new F-16s that will be somewhere between Block 52 and 60
with PAF specific upgrades. PAF is asking for AIM120s and JDAMs.
PhaseIIb: During the 3rd phase of delivery schedule PAF, is planning to place an order for another 50+ F-16s, thus the finances will be spread out over the period of 4 to 7 years.
PAF pilots have test flown the UAE Block 60 F-16s and were quite impressed with it for obvious reasons. I think one big difference we would see is PAF wouldn not go with the spine, rather the clean look of Block 52 F-16s.
If you remember last years it was reported that PAF was planning to invest around $15 billion on its inventory over the period of 10 years, well this is the shopping list.
As far Shais Ali’s report of Block 15 F-16s is concerned, he is only talking about the Phase I and its not only 28 F-16s. These aircraft are very cheap and PAF has not set any number below 40. This might be devided into multiple purchases.
Like the State dept briefings suggested, PAF is buying new F-16s and older/stored F-16s are part of a separate deal, which will not be a part of FMS, rather part of aid program and won’t need congress approval since Pakistan is a member of non-Nato ally.
The approval of new F-16 has already been cleared and so far Congress has not blocked any sale to any country that has been a part of war against terror.
mavaustinShais ali
you are talking out of your behind again….. You have no idea of numbers. Only people who know are PAF officials, US officials and Lockheed Martin people.
Now, for your information, PAF is not even looking at Block 15s. They will be placing an order for Block 50+ PAF specific, with some avionics from Block 60. Their A and B will be going through MLU. Even the state department has said that PAF will be placing an order of new F-16s. The deals for the used/older F-16s is separate.
http://www.state.gov/r/pa/prs/dpb/2005/43858.htm
Read this press conf briefings…. and stop spreading made up lies.
mavaustinI and few people did predict that sale would be finalized by this summer. Now I can let you in a secret and give you the exact numbers and types being requested but that would start a flame war.
I can tell you that this sale would be two phased. and NO it would not effect JF-17 production and procurement plans. PAF is also looking into J-10 and PAF pilots have test flown the aircraft.
End of 04, PAF crew visited France to finalize the avionics suite for JF-17 and also looking into requirements for J-10
mavaustinGA
pakistani news paper is giving the ref to the same article of asia times that was published by saleem shazad(sp?) who wrote that ridiculous article based on no name sources which is his forte. :rolleyes:
mavaustinWORLD’S FIRST BOMBER FORMATION LOOP
27 OCTOBER 1964 – PESHAWAR AIR BASE
The first ever formation aerobatics on bombers were performed at Peshawar during an air display on 27 October 1964 – at which Air Marshal Omar Dani, C-in-C of the Indonesian Air Force, was the Chief Guest. The 4 B-57s were led by Wing Commander Nazir Latif with Squadron Leader Altaf Sheikh and Flight Lieutenants Abdul Basit and Shams as team members. The team executed loops, rolls and wing overs, the first two manoeuvres being unheard of in such a heavy class of aircraft as the B-57, which was not really designed to perform aerobatics even singly. Their precise but apparently effortless station-keeping throughout the demonstration effectively concealed the intense concentration, and physical exertion that all four pilots went through.
mavaustinone picture i could locate on gettyimages, this is from a operation in balochistan in 2004.
mavaustinI would agree with steve, most of the 412’s i have come across are in metallic silver finish.
mavaustinhttp://www.dailytimes.com.pk/defaul…9-2-2005_pg7_40
IAF chief says Mirage purchase will trigger nuclear arms race
ISLAMABAD: The Chief of the Indian Air Force ST Tiagi has said India will replace the Russian made Mig-21 aircrafts with the latest French Mirage adding that the purchase would open a nuclear arms race in the region.
Talking to BBC from Delhi, the Indian air chief said that the country was also interested in the US F-16s. Responding to a question on what would neighbour’s, particularly China and Pakistan’s reaction would be Tiagi said it would start an arms race.
He said it has come to be known that an embargo imposed on Pakistan will be lifted. The F-16 aircraft which Pakistan bought ten years ago and whose delivery was stopped by the USA will now be supplied to Pakistan. Its clearance is expected to be secured in the next three or four months.
An airborne surveillance system is also being acquired by India, he added. Delhi has signed deals with Israel and Russia in this connection. This system is likely to arrive in the next two or three years. India will be the only country in the region to possess this AWACS capability. It means that India will be capable of locating an aircraft within 600 kilometres, along with its speed and direction.
He also said that the Indian Air Force is going to purchase 126 multi-role aircraft from the market. These 126 aircraft will be inducted in the Indian Air Force in the next five to six years.
The Indian Air Force already has nearly 50 Mirage 2000. The air force says that the Mirage 2005 is an advanced version and should be acquired. India is engaged in negotiations with France to acquire Mirage 2005 for the past two and a half years, but recently India has also sent its demand to the USA and Sweden. India has also tried to get Russian MiG-29-M.
To a question, ST Tiagi said there were nearly 300 to 350 MiG-21 aircraft with the IAF but 125 of them were being upgraded with better weapons and avionics. According to Indian air force chief the 126 multi-role aircraft will cost nearly $20-30 million each in the market. sana
mavaustinnitin
PAF is slowly replacing FT-5s with K-8. Its more like swaping of 6 with 6 aircraft as needed.
I always wondered why do Indians here always think that it didn’t meet the requirement if it wasn’t done on time or change of plans. I have seen the same logic vis-a-vis Khalid tank when army bought T-80s, Tow-II with respect to baktar shikan etc….
recentl 6 more K-8 were assembled at masroor and handed over to the academy, PAF didn’t want to replace ~80 trainers in one or two years. Most of the T-37s are being replaced first, some were sold to bangladesh AF.
mavaustinShais
you and your analysis, please follow the development properly or don’t give your opinions. If you were following the development, you would have seen from the above picture that fences have been removed. even pakdef had claimed that after the initial testing fences will be removed, i think it was usman who mentioned that even before the first test flight.
secondly vortex is created under certain ceiling and speed, since we can’t tell what ceiling the aircraft is flying, we can’t make any judgement calls.
Wasn’t that you who claimed that the wing roots will be widened and wings been redisigned to have a bigger span? So much for the insider new
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