Re what Anon said, do we know that SBAC 5 is equivalent in diameter to SAE 50, and SBAC 6 the same as SAE 60? It’s always been an assumption I’ve made, largely because of the equivalence of blade thousand series and US shank letter sizes, but is there a possibility that SAE 50 is in fact a bit larger – possibly even allowing adaption to SBAC 6? I think I can check SBAC 4 against SAE 40 when I get home.
Hi Graham – did you get my pm with an email?
Ed, that really is mad. It just might work.
PM sent š
I was joking before, but it honestly might be easier to reverse the Sabre! http://www.epi-eng.com/piston_engine_technology/reversing_engine_rotation.htm
..or build a new reduction gear?
Just wasted 15 quid on a downloadable 130A. It ends on page 66 with the line ‘templates and tables are available from the manufacturer on request’
This was from 1956 – I guess somewhere between 1947 (the one I saw the contents page of) and 1956 the lawyers began to gain power.
The 1947 one is 90-something quid!
Thanks, though.
Ed, I don’t suppose you copied the 6127 before running for it?
Thanks Cees
We have this HS one, No. 110:
[ATTACH=CONFIG]246093[/ATTACH]
and this one from DH:
[ATTACH=CONFIG]246092[/ATTACH]
If it’s something else, then yes please :eagerness:
Agreed, but reaching for another pint in the virtual pub, re. 1) it was considered that the part inboard of, say, 40% didn’t really do anything useful anyway, so that rule was only loosely applied, at least by De Havilland for a while. Maybe this was because they were initially just copying US designs as per the Flight article in the other blade thread, and the Americans only really had radials apart from the Allison. (Spit I is an example, with plenty of shank outside the cowl radius):
[ATTACH=CONFIG]246090[/ATTACH]
(2) Aerofoils were compared, and some optimums were arrived at, but see 4, (3) You’d think so, wouldn’t you? But (4) it isn’t just the extremes of performance. History is littered with aircraft that suddenly got a whole lot better, or worse, with a change of prop. Almost always glossed over by that aircraft’s ‘experts’. What we have is a part of the drive chain that can vary its efficiency by five, ten percent or more. It is the only means to convert a reciprocating engine’s power to an aeroplane’s motion. If it were, say, a prop shaft that could, if the wrong one was selected, reduce an engine’s efficiency by just 5% then it would be got right – for reasons of economy if nothing else. But there are all kinds of ‘it’ll do’ arrangements flying, and the work done eighty years ago is largely unknown or ignored. I suppose its fair to say that in a military aircraft with reserves of power an inefficient prop is not a safety issue in normal civilian usage, so it happens. (which reading it back is what you said) (5) I need a CAD orientated volunteer!
8.3 inches. 129 inch diameter.. the rest should fall into place now. Aerofoil was probably RAF6 or possibly Clark Y – I heard growling from down the corridor before I’d found that bit.
Here you go. No one has original dH tables. The new blades for UK Spits with DH props were done by measuring existing ones. That data is jealously guarded.
HOWEVER it can be pieced together – technically for the Spit I de H 55409 blade, but I suspect it’s the same. In these graphs you need propeller ‘III’ in the first two figures, and propeller ‘V’ in the last. All you now need is an absolute measurement of chord at 0.7 radius, something that frustratingly I can’t put my hands on right now. From Fig 4 you can work out the chord along the blade (the figures are ratio of chord to chord at 0.7r). From fig 2, thickness to chord, you can derive the thickness. Angular twist (fig 3) is fairly straightforward. These are from RAE Reports 2357 and 2602, available online.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]246057[/ATTACH]
Blade planforms were not symmetrical of course, they were plotted along a straight axis defined by centre of mass of the section. That’ll require some work, but is doable – or you can just do it by eye, from photos, as yours is a replica.
For that key dimension, chord at 0.7r, I will dig in what I got from Farnborough before they released the lions.
Manufacturing as it was done in 1935 (with forging out-sourced) is described here: https://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1935/1935%20-%201442.html
Good overview of wartime dH blade development here: https://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1956/1956%20-%200241.html Not the one with the ‘four basic types’ in it, unfortunately.
I also can’t find the article about forging and grain direction. However, de H were very obliging with their advertising. Here’s an illustration of grain deflection around the shank:
[ATTACH=CONFIG]246052[/ATTACH]
And a couple of shots of blanks:
[ATTACH=CONFIG]246053[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]246054[/ATTACH]
Finally that video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PY8oQ3XNreY
Big blade milling machine around 4 mins:
[ATTACH=CONFIG]246055[/ATTACH]
C’est formidable. Bonzer!
Not seen any of that before. Yes.. different rolling dies for left and right (as leading edge/trailing edge and convex side/near-flat side dictate) – but not different for every blade drawing? I remember reading in a ‘Flight’ article that dH only really made four blade types, so four (eight?) sets of dies?
The rest was in the milling- there’s a video out there on you tube showing how the aerofoil and planform was ground out to the drawing.
Not only a big blade, but pointy! I am moving hesitantly in the direction of thinking all ‘basic blade’ drawings looked like this, a straight taper to a point.
The shape of those un-worked blades on the grass, with gert big shoulders down near the shank, helps confirm my numbering theory in a complicated way that this Aussie Shiraz is preventing me from going into.
Yes, there are a known set of corrections for distance to hub centre – the precise figures are laid out in a table in manual 110. That’s the one that isn’t in a locked filing cabinet at the end of a disused corridor behind a sign reading ‘Beware of the leopard’.
Thanks for the info, and confirmation. I think I will fork out for one of the copies that are apparently available from sellers online.
I have enough DH data to start making comparisons.
Britannia?!?
[ATTACH=CONFIG]245944[/ATTACH]
D*MN – Planemike beat me to it, while I was rummaging for a picture.
I will – nice project.
Have you looked at the FAA 33E60 / 33EX type certificate, P-786 ?
http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgMakeModel.nsf/0/3dā¦
Includes the Corsair’s 6507, and some bigger blades too.
Similarly P-871 ( http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgMakeModel.nsf/0/c8⦠) covers the 43E50 / 43E60 / 43EX, and includes the Super Connie’s 6903. It also has the DC6 6895, though they didn’t appear to be licenced above -8, (13′ 5″).
So, one of these (in LH form) might be an equivalent? I think you are edging into the same corner the TFC Beaufighter team found themselves in.
The lack of horses licenced on big blades on the 23 type cert is due to it being a smaller, less meaty, shell and spider design that only accommodated up to SAE 50 or equivalent.. I can’t check the current 603 as it appears to have been removed from the FAA website today (it was there yesterday). But the revision history shows it to only go up to SAE 50.
Some radical engineering will be needed, whichever way you approach it. Either, as P and P said, new-forged LH blades on an adapted 33E60 on an adapted prop shaft, or remanufacture everything prop-related from scratch as per P9374, or change the rotation of your Sabre!