David Gilmour – my sister once hatched a plan to marry him, simply for the guitar playing and the airy-plane collection.
There are more technically perfect players out there, but no-one with the natural ability to cram emotion into a couple of bent notes as he.. actually, I hate him! 😉
For the more folkily-inclined – Bert Jansch? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqjUWJtH88c
Makes one guitar sound like several playing off against each other. Hell of a trick to pull off.
David Gilmour – my sister once hatched a plan to marry him, simply for the guitar playing and the airy-plane collection.
There are more technically perfect players out there, but no-one with the natural ability to cram emotion into a couple of bent notes as he.. actually, I hate him! 😉
For the more folkily-inclined – Bert Jansch? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqjUWJtH88c
Makes one guitar sound like several playing off against each other. Hell of a trick to pull off.
Although I’m a new guy too, I just thought I’d say ‘welcome’ and wish you the very best of luck with the project – elsewhere forumites have already suggested Tuck’s story as one of the tales that they would most like to see on film. Of course, there are bits that the public will have trouble believing (if I remember rightly, there was a million-to-one tragedy involving him and – correct me if I’m wrong – his brother in law).
I’ll certainly be watching for your questions, eager to help – as I’m sure many here will.
I’m curious – as an amateur script-writer myself – how are you rounding off the story? Are you sticking with the timeline, which has Tuck happily becoming a mushroom farmer in Kent, or deliberately ‘topping and tailing’ to give dramatic shape, as per ‘Fly for your Life’? I’m not saying one is better than the other.
Apparently, this site has more info… and it was indeed a mid-air!
http://forum.armyairforces.com/Lightning-Collision-with-RAF-Bomber-December-1943-m168150.aspx
Another site has this:
forum.armyairforces.com doesn’t confirm anything about it being mid-air, however. What it does (through a heated discussion) reveal is that the aircraft had no visible service record, just a very short spell (Nov – Dec 1943) in the UK, before one source quoted there has the aircraft as “salvaged non battle damage at Speke, Lancashire on 22nd December”
The aircraft MAY have been repaired and sent back into service – it wasn’t written off until June 1944, apparently.
To have collected the port fin of the Halifax on the port wing of the F5 would have been difficult in a ground collision? The fin looks quite new (!)
To be fair, it would be equally difficult – if not more so – to do so in an air collision.
If the Halifax was – as per Badger’s quote – written off I would suggest that the Halifax was either taking off or landing with the F5 stationary in its path. Thus it had sufficient momentum to lose a fin and do some serious damage to leading edges and upper surfaces of the F5, and also the bottom of the tail as it was rocked backwards by the impact. This explains how the fin stayed there (as per my previous post, unlikely in the air) and why the props were not turning. The wheel tracks only show the F5’s most recent movements – almost certainly it was trundled away from a place where anything was likely to hit it again!
It would be lovely to believe the P-38 had miraculous powers, but I suspect there has been some myth-making going on over the years around this incident (the tale conspicuously lacking one thing – as bazv points out – a hero), and the truth is rather more mundane. However, I would be very happy to be proved wrong!
Halifax / F5 – I’m really not sure that the F5 flew like that. The leading edge of the starboard wing is too knackered to allow the wing to perform any useful aerodynamic function apart from create drag (and this wing appears to have partially sheared immediately outboard of the engine, bending backwards a little). A bloody great flat thing attached to the leading edge of the port wing does the same job for that side, only more so (just having an unfeathered prop on a seized engine can make a twin un-flyable). Besides which, I am doubtful that the fin could become attached to the wing leading edge (traditionally, quite a curvy and smooth surface) at the moment of impact in such a way that it could resist airflow (and prop wash) at flying speeds and remain there. It also looks like the starboard prop wasn’t turning when the collision happened..
B17 pics impressive tho. They built those things well, didn’t they?
Fair point, Mark. You are right – so many documentaries talk of ‘Nazi troops’, ‘Nazi bases’ even ‘Nazi aircraft’.
However, in this particular case, it seemed a bit iffy as this was specifically a very senior officer’s dress uniform (not that of a combatant) from the Nazi period that he had chosen to wear to a public day out – gold braid, baton and all. I suspect it would be regarded with distaste at any German air display as well.
I’m sure they guy wearing it was clear on what he was commemorating.
I can’t quite work out who’d buy it. Any aviation memorabilia collector would spot the fake immediately, just from the photos. Who else would be interested?
However, I do think there should be more noise made by the historic aviation community about these Nazi worshipping idiots who hang about on the fringes.
There was a bloke strolling about Duxford’s end-of-season show with some Nazi dress uniform or other on. My friends – including one Jewish bloke – took me there as a surprise for my birthday. No-one took offence – he looked too ridiculous – but some DID look at me funny after that (“..is THIS what you’re into”?)
Heston Racer? :diablo:
I have another candidate – 454 squadron RAAF Baltimores, operating in the theatre at the time, from the official history attacking trains, MT and ferries behind Axis lines in support of the allied assault on the Po valley. It fits – and I even have one picture in which Italian based Baltimores of 454 have no apparent red in the roundel centres! Can anyone confirm this?
Thanks MHUXT!
This looks the most likely candidate so far. I have found one Italian reference (on a rather unsavoury and hysterical neofascist site) to pairs of P.47s, P.38s and P.51s attacking ferries on the Northern lakes. However, the aircraft in the painting were twins, and I’m sure any witness would have picked up on the twin booms of the P38.
The aircraft depicted – stocky, conventional and shoulder-winged – to me looked most reminiscent of Bothas. Not helpful, I know! Oh, and I forgot to mention they were painted as all-over grey. I don’t know if anyone knows what scheme the 416th Mossies wore?
There is also one specific reference to the incident on a tourist site that places it next to the lake-port of Siviano, in 1944, killing 41. I am doubtful as to the figure – and if the web is to believed the allies in Italy only ever attacked bus-loads of schoolchildren and grandmothers. While laughing.
Anyway, I’ll try to find out more about the 416th NFS sorties. 100k isn’t much of a diversion for a pair of Mosquitoes looking for targets of opportunity with complete air superiority.
Flight Magazine, in its ‘War in the Air’ editorial commentary dated July 11th 1940, has “This new battle in Europe, which has been dubbed ‘The Battle of Britain’ (as far as I know by our own politicians) is falsely named – It should have been called the first stage of the Battle for America…”
By October 10th 1940, Flight has accepted the term into common currency – giving the headline “The Battle of Britain Goes On : Likewise the Battle of Germany”
There are other examples of the phrase in Flight in between. I recommend Flight Global’s superb searchable archive – http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/index.html
Merry Christmas to all on here!
Just remembered that the Puffin book is simply a kid’s version of the official publication, from the same Ministry source – though oddly it does pre-date it. Other ‘time capsules’ still occasionally available in second-hand bookshops (though so much rarer now than twenty years ago) are wartime ‘flight’ magazines, and those beautifully produced, heavy-duty illustrated hardbacks aimed at older kids, (finest example: ‘The Wonder Book of the RAF, 1941’), including photos that don’t appear in any archive, just in hard copy in those rare tomes.
While I was overseas my landlord took it upon himself to remove and then throw away a packing crate full of this material. Lost forever. He said ‘But Matt, they were OLD, I didn’t know you wanted to keep them’. I am still in mourning, 12 years on, and haven’t had the heart to begin rebuilding. Moral: Cherish these items.
As for the ‘Battle of Britain’ – it was coined by Churchill before it even happened “..the Battle of Britain is about to begin” – and by December 1940 a Puffin picture book for children called “The Battle of Britain” was published. Now, that really IS a time capsule – sadly my beloved copy was lost in a house move, somehow.
Wait, no, I have read further, and have a new favourite “Your official rules were the basis for my reasonable set of expectations, namely, my right….. to not be frustrated by people standing on ladders”
To be fair, ladders ARE a bit antisocial, and should be conviscated on entry. But this does read like a spoof.