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Beermat

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March 31, 2025 at 2:24 pm in reply to: 1940 Combat Reports #1145995

Beermat
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It’s not the people who are able to tell the difference that’s worrying me; it’s the people who can’t. There are plenty of people working with historical research that do not possess the required knowledge (to detect a fake combat report).

Contamination of original and “protected” archives is contamination of history – it happens and is damn hard to detect.

Perhaps its a matter of awareness – if people involved in research approach all reports with the attitude ‘this might well be a fake’ then more dodgy examples would be disregarded.

What I mean is – as someone who wouldn’t dream of publishing anything I claimed to be definitive at my low level of expertise (when compared to the remarkable brains trust gathered in this thread) – I would not have noticed anything wrong with the Kent report until I started looking at it from the point of view of ‘likely fake’. Then – and only then – do things jump out.

So devalued these records might be, but the devaluation can be reduced considerably by awareness. Right – who are these researchers? We’ve gotta tell them..;)

(Edit: Posted before I got to see the more sensible and reasoned argument above)

March 31, 2025 at 2:24 pm in reply to: 1940 Combat Reports #1146026

Beermat
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Monkeys and Typewriters?

Its just struck me – on old detective movies, it was possible to match typewriters. Would there not be, in effect, a ‘squadron typewriter’ that was used for these reports. Consequently, all the reports from a given day from a given squadron would have the same characteristic typeset, or whatever the technical term is. Anything that doesn’t match this is at best an ‘official’ reproduction and at worst a complete fake.

I guess this would take some doing, though. But it would certainly put the cat among the forgery pigeons. Yes, the forgers will learn to match this typeface, but if there was a register of ownership taken at the ‘snapshot’ time, what would be the point?

March 31, 2025 at 2:23 pm in reply to: 1940 Combat Reports #1145887

Beermat
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Hahahaha :D:D (um – that WAS the fake one, right)?

March 31, 2025 at 2:23 pm in reply to: Civvie Mossie #1145751

Beermat
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http://www.edcoatescollection.com/ac1/austcl/VH-KLG.html

Daft question removed – but – is that a recon pod under the fuselage? Looks odd.

March 31, 2025 at 2:21 pm in reply to: 1940 Combat Reports #1145396

Beermat
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Can I just draw the attention of anyone following this fascinating thread to the bits of it that have seeped accidentally into the ‘Who are they’ thread? Specifically, some interesting things around carbon dating.

Mods, is it possible to untangle these threads?

Cheers

Yes – tis done (eventually!) – Bruce

March 31, 2025 at 2:15 pm in reply to: Unknown Hurricane Pilot #1144252

Beermat
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Is that your collection.. um, no, I mean your Military Trader friend’s collection, which you have on DVD.. no wait.. He has on DVD..um.. has the originals to scan… um.. what was the last thing I said? Anyway, he’s Andy Saunders’ best mate, you know.

March 31, 2025 at 2:14 pm in reply to: Unknown Hurricane Pilot #1143998

Beermat
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No Graham, I am Andy Saunders best friend. Or was that Spartacus

Well, I am Andy Saunders. And so’s my wife.

I’ve been carbon dated, and have a certificate too.

March 31, 2025 at 2:14 pm in reply to: 1940 Combat Reports #1144067

Beermat
Participant

What a sad loser the person must have been to produce these IF they are fakes, in the first place.

Fakes are produced for money, not out of some random or ‘sad’ impulse. Whether initially sold honestly as facsimiles or traded as originals, where there is demand somebody will supply.

A poorly reproduced signature is no bar to selling to many willing customers, and so there’s no reason why that wouldn’t happen – along with many other indicators that have been discussed at length right here – I for one have learned a lot.

But yes, ultimately if – as a collector – one is happy with what one has, then that’s great. As long as anyone using this material for historical research reasons is aware of the unfortunate fact that so many forgeries/reproductions are out there, then I guess a happy punter is a happy punter. I personally would never punt on anything like this.

Would an Air Digger help you catch that plane?

March 31, 2025 at 2:14 pm in reply to: Unknown Hurricane Pilot #1143960

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How dare you, sir? Who are you to question my authenticity? Oh… hang on..

Tell you what, I’ll withdraw myself from eBay, just in case.

March 31, 2025 at 2:10 pm in reply to: Fabric Wing Hurricane project update – Little Gransden #1143220

Beermat
Participant

Thanks Moggy! I understand that Hawker Restorations have been very helpful in the past (since before my time with the project, in fact). Thing is though, they haven’t done one of these, either 🙂 – As far as I know (and don’t quote me on this) this is the first excercise in gathering such items for the purposes of information that has taken place, and that includes the most excellent work of Hawker Restorations.

March 31, 2025 at 2:05 pm in reply to: Fabric Wing Hurricane project update – Little Gransden #1142128

Beermat
Participant

Thanks to all!

In terms of paper plans, we are well served – so unless they have some actual bits somewhere (and I WILL double check, but I suspect our Paul would have access to them by now if they did) Hawker Restorations probably can’t help much further in this very specific area – but yes, thanks, there’s no doubt they are generally a place to go for all yer Hurri-building info needs.

I am learning as I go on this project, and what I’ve learned is that this is one of those cases where a picture might paint a thousand words, but an actual rusty lump of metal is even more descriptive! So this limits the help the Science Museum can give as well, as they won’t let me peel the skin off theirs! (not that i’m suggesting it’s rusty in there, of course).

So, Adrian, I will be pursuing the Essex Aviation angle as best I can – thank you so much for that, that’s the kind of lead I was hoping for. Like I said, fragments are still good – especially castings, as they can be re-cast from a moulding of the original and often dictate all those critical internal angles..

March 31, 2025 at 2:05 pm in reply to: Bob Stanford Tuck #1142183

Beermat
Participant

David Niven?

March 31, 2025 at 2:04 pm in reply to: Fabric Wing Hurricane project update – Little Gransden #1141904

Beermat
Participant

Do you mean this one, Rocketeer? 😉 (from our website – what a handsome chap on the drill, there). Yep, I’ll pass on your regards to Mr R.

Adrian – many thanks for that! I will PM him 🙂

March 31, 2025 at 2:03 pm in reply to: Bob Stanford Tuck #1141711

Beermat
Participant

Fair do’s. Trouble is, he DOES look familiar.

March 31, 2025 at 2:03 pm in reply to: Fabric Wing Hurricane project update – Little Gransden #1141737

Beermat
Participant

Harsh! Why do you say that? The Paul I know is dedicating a lot of time and his own money to a very worthwhile cause. So much so, he can’t actually afford an apostrophe in his name.

I’ve just found an old thread, from well before I joined – “Hurricane rebuild & Fury Replica – Cambridgeshire Bomber & Fighter Society” – you have a long-standing hatred, don’t you? To give an answer to your post on that thread Andy, if you’re reading this – it IS a data-plate plus-some-bits serial identity (but definitely NOT just an ‘applied’ serial).

Edit – Thinking about it Stuart, don’t explain it on here – I don’t want this thread closed – it sounds like it might get libellous, from what you say in your edit.
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