ResmorohI have put the problem to an ex-Halifax Air Met Observer (MAO). MAOs normally were part of a multi-crew a/c. In the single-seat a/c the Pilot had to do it all. In the two-seaters (Mossie) the Navigator did the Met bit. Don’t know how high Spitfires could go but one Met Flight Spitfire is thought to have exceeded 50,000 ft (in the Far East).
HTH
Resmoroh
ResmorohThe Mobile Met Unit HQ shared a building at Benson with 6 AEF. One afternoon as I was doing Mob Met Unit “Scribbly Stuff” when this slightly mature RAFVR(T) Fg Off tapped on the window and said “Bin that rubbish. Let’s go fly an aeroplane”. And so we did. As we were getting into the Chipmunk I noticed that my “slightly mature” RAFVR(T) Fg Off was none other than Air Marshal Sir Kenneth Hayr!! He let me have “hands on”. When we landed he simply said “I can see why you’re a Met Man and not a Pilot!!!!”.
Then there were all the Nefarious Purposes Committee exercises (and Ops!) with the Tac Comms Wing! The “MMU Bloke” was, de facto, 2 i/c the TCW Nav Aids Flight (TCW were very short of Officers!). If I pitched up in the TCW hangar in uniform it was “Good morning, Sir”, but if I pitched up in civvies then it was “Oi, Met, your turn to make the coffee!”. Everybody knew the subtle differences! Good days.
And last, but by no means least, all the scurrilous stories of those In High Places re-told by the Captain of TQF – Archie Winskill !!!
The two best tours I ever did!
Resmoroh
ResmorohMy colleague (one of the authors of the book, and a war-time MAO) confirms my earlier.
The Aircraft Aneroid, Mk IIb, was fitted to the Met version of the Spitfires with pressurized cabins, such as the PR Mk VII and the PR XIX.(see p.189 of ETBWW). These aircraft had an operational ceiling in excess of 40,000ft, and as you know were used for the daily PRATA climbs (soundings) to 200mb or even higher. They would have been connected to a dedicated static vent, usually located on the side of the fuselage. The precision Aneroid barometers installed in the MAOs position in the recce. Halifaxes only had a range from 1050 to 400mb; our climbs were limited to 500mb, although the B17s on Met Recce (with superior superchargers) used to extend their climb to 400mb.
HTH
Resmoroh
ResmorohMiles Aircraft
Lyffe,
Don’t forget that the Museum of Berks Aviation is still at Woodley. They have a vast amount of Miles information. I can spit from where I live to Woodley. If I can be of any help in this matter, Oh Gracious Leader, then your wish is my command!!!!
(Gerroff!)
HTH
Resmoroh
ResmorohTry getting a copy of
Or contact Rod Priddle. He’s the expert!
HTH
Resmoroh
ResmorohThanks for all the info, hints and tips. We are trying to tie down the time/date of arrival in the USA of the NoK of one of the casualties on our Met Office RoH. It’s all bits of a jig-saw. We have the bits of the jig-saw (hopefully only one jig-saw!). We have the box lid – with the picture on. We are not certain that jig-saw bits belong to the same picture!! That is where your expertise helps! It’s only by including/excluding some possibilities by the jig-saw bits that we can progress. Add to this the byzantine USA system of issuing SSN numbers, and the problem complexicates!
Keeps us off the streets!!!!
Tks again
Resmoroh
ResmorohGraham,
Mni tks yr help – much appreciated. Will follow-up yr suggestions.
Rgds
Resmoroh
ResmorohGraham,
Mni tks for coming back to me.
As I understand it there were two Harrows on the UK>Gib run that did not arrive at Gib?
The one I’m particularly interested in is K7011 on 19 Dec 42 (one of our Met RoH blokes was on board that night, on his (urgent?) way to Met Off Malta). I don’t know the other one. I’m also interested (on another Forum) at what height – climbing out of Perranporth – they would have been picked up by Luftwaffe radar(s) on the Brest Peninsular. My argument is that the Luftwaffe may have been keeping a beady eye on slow, lumbering (142kts TAS), transports from UK to Gib. Clearly these were not to be used for offensive purposes. So they must have contained high-value personnel/equipment/mail, etc, – else it would have gone by sea (with just the U-boat menace to deal with).
They, both, did not arrive at Gib because either (a) they’d fallen out of the sky due to some catastrophic airframe failure, or (b) the Luftwaffe had got them!
All I’m trying to do is get a handle on the problems of the time. There were plenty of aircraft types that could have done the run (more comfortably/faster) at the time – but could they have been spared from their operational tasks?
The answers are in the Nav/WoP logs – which are now at the bottom of the Atlantic!
Tks yr help
Resmoroh
ResmorohIt’s piece of Met Office invented kit. Every Met Office had at least one. Email the Met Office instrument section. They will have the cct diagram – or know who does. You won’t get much help from Negretti & Zambra. Every time I email them for some thermometry archive there is nix response!
HTH
Resmoroh
ResmorohLooks like he might have Enlisted at Cardington in Sep 1940 aged 26. AC2 at Death 5 months later – should have completed Basic Training (square-bashing, jabs, etc)? Still at the ITW (Initial Training Wing) Torquay?
HTH
Resmoroh
ResmorohAM,
Tks for that. No suggestions of radar altimeters?
Rgds
Resmoroh
ResmorohI think Moggy (#220) has hit the nail on the head!
Nobody would disagree that flight lines and displays should be tailored to minimise the dangers to the public in the event of an accident. How you could ever guarantee this 100% on this crowded island defeats me.
I am beginning to get the distinct impression that the airshow aficionados (both knowledgable, and otherwise – as previous comments here have demonstrated!) are beginning to “whistle in the dark” against some possible/future draconian edict basically snuffing out their hobby. Even the two shows which are an important aviation export business may end up being re-located to some remote airfield.
Farnborough 1952 caused major changes to both aircraft and airshows. Shoreham 2015 may result in a ‘change too far’ for the continuation of publicly attended (in whatever way) airshows.
Resmoroh.
ResmorohHi All,
The filming of the parachute scenes was almost worth a documentary in itself!
I was told that the film company had carried out trials of Belgian paratroops exiting (on static line) from a C-130 (out of shot, ‘above’ the screen). These would then be filmed from the camera a/c dropping past a C-47. Film ‘trickery’ was to be used to give the impression that the paras were exiting from the C-47. It didn’t work, and the film company then, effectively, ‘hired’ a sizeable chunk of 16 Para Bde.
The paras were to drop from a collection of ‘good’ C-47s (Finland and Denmark) aided by a motley collection of C-47s from around the world (some from Djibouti which were named, inevitably, by the Grunts as the “Jam Buttie Airlines”!!).
But before all this could take place a large number of trials were conducted to see if modern paras (and kit) could safely exit a C-47. Most were held on the Hankley Common DZ and involved Farnborough (a/c and various experts, including a Flt Lt Six-Bolt Stop (I don’t think anybody knew his real name – but he’d done this actual job, for real, many years ago!)) and some PJIs from 1PTS were the Grunts. Support was from 38 Group Medics, MMU (me!), TCW, etc.
The Six-Bolt Stop is a metal clamp fixed to the running wire inside the a/c and secured to it by 6 bolts. Its precise position on that wire determines at what point the static line tightens to pull the parachute cover off and deploy it. I can’t remember which is which, but too short and the parachute may foul the tail-plane. Too long and the static line may wrap itself round the tail-plane. Thick dollops of black printers-ink were painted on the undersides of the tail-plane, with the brush-strokes going sideways. After each drop (with the position of the 6-Bolt Stop varied) the PJIs canopies were closely inspected for black ink, and the a/c was inspected back at Farnborough to see if there had been any ‘flicking’ of either canopy, or static line, on the tail-plane.
It was, I may say, a considerable pleasure to have worked with so many experts in a relatively small field.
HTH
Resmoroh
ResmorohI am advised, on good authority (recently retired Senior Officer and one-time member of MRF) of the following:-
The RAF Historical Society held a seminar on all RAF ‘things nuclear’ about a year ago at the RAF Museum. I was unable to attend but the Journal included some very interesting articles on the tests ‘down under’ mostly written by the planners and the crews that took part.
I am not aware of any MRF involvement but the ‘full-time’ MRF Canberra at the time would have been*WJ582.
Best I can do
Resmoroh
Resmorohredhillwings, hi,
Much of the post explosion air sampling in/around Australia was carried out by UK based Shackletons (I have some patchy notes somewhere as to which a/c and/or crews were involved) – with hastily added ‘Met’ kit plumbed in and using 202 Sqn Air Met Observers. They must have got quite ‘hot’? Indeed some of the RAAF Lincolns (on the same sort of job) were so hot that they were simply ‘sunk at sea’!!!! These latter were initially washed-down by RAAF personnel wearing nothing more protective than boots, socks, and shorts!!!!!! So much for Elf & Safety!
Some Canberras (or a Canberra?) may have been used for much higher level sampling? They certainly were for later atomic tests (both ‘Ours’, and ‘Theirs’!). The various OPs AROMA will cover this aspect!
“Red Beard” was, I think, the UK’s first tactical nuclear weapon. It was designed to go in (inter alia) a Canberra.
HTH
Resmoroh
PS There was also a Varsity involved (possibly WF425 of the Met Research Flight). And if MRF were involved then their Canberra may have been?
Sign In
