ResmorohThis is never going to be resolved by virtue of various people/organisations hiding The Facts behind a smokescreen of financial mumbo-jumbo.
What is required is that ALL those in senior positions be summoned by a Parliamentary Committee to appear (together with all their personal bank account statements for the last 5 years – including ALL the accounts of any firm, or company, they have ever been associated with in the same period) and explain where everything went – and why. The beauty of the Parliamentary Committee is that no “defending lawyers” are present to cloud the issues with weasel words and associated legal niff-naff and trivia. Each individual has to answer the questions to the best of his/her personal recollections/abilities. Do it NOW!!!!!!
Should there be subsequent legal proceedings then lawyers (as in our enshrined system) can prosecute/defend as the case may be.
Only then will we approximate to what actually happened to all the money (accountants and M’learned Friends are very clever! – make no mistake).
It will stop us (a) less informed and/or (b) more informed exchanging increasingly vitriolic messages on the forum.
HTH
Resmoroh
ResmorohSmiler558,
Does that now mean that we now have to pay to belong to an organisation who’s accounts should be (by Parliamentary edict) open and free to all?
This information is, however, of some value! It would appear that there are now those who would wish to stifle debate on a very emotive subject. And why might that debate wish to be stifled? Because there are probably unmentionables in the (financial) woodpile which they were keen that “We” didn’t know about.
I have often thought about the way this project was run – but now there is a distinct smell of rat upon the air.
I would be grateful if someone would convince me that my fears are groundless.
Resmoroh
ResmorohI’ll go with busshelter!! Where can one see the Accounts? Who did the figures? And who signed them off? I am not qualified to read a Balance Sheet, or yearly Account, and make reasonable suppositions therefrom. But I have colleagues who are expert in that way of working, and who do this sort of thing for a living. We might (just) be turning over a stone and not desperately best pleased with what comes to light underneath?
Who?, What?, Where?, When?, and How Much? Need figures!!!
HTH
Resmoroh
ResmorohI have followed this thread with some considerable interest. I (and others) were on Ascension long before the UK Navy got it’s act together. However, Ascension was, at that time, commanded by a 4-ring Naval Captain. I can see this – I was there, and saw his errors of judgement. It was the last throw of the dice that the descendants of Nelson’s lot were ever going to get. “They” said to the UK PM at the time (Thatcher) “We can do it”. They did – but only just – and with a lot of help from the other two Services which they (the Fishheads) refuse, churlishly, to acknowledge. However, in strictly military terms Ascension should have been commanded by (at least) an Air Commodore – it’s importance was such. But The Andrew knew that this was the last opportunity it was going to have to remain a “Blue Water Fleet” – politics overtook sound, sensible, military planning. If one needs to take cogniscance of this one only has to look at today’s UK press. The UK RN cannot maintain a warship in Falkland waters. An RFA vessel is being put in it’s place. Nothing against RFAs (I have rellies who served therein), but it ain’t the same! You know that, and I know that. Your problem is that you – the RN element – are not prepared to admit it. Now that could be down to Govt underfunding (been known before with weak left-wing govts), but could also be due to same govts inabilities to look beyond the next UK local by-election!
If you want logical, well argued, ways in which our defences should be run, then don’t look to politicians for a sane answer – or body-bags coming back to RAF Lyneham/Brize Norton!
Repectfully
Resmoroh
ResmorohNewforest,
Brilliant! One of the finest examples of understatement I’ve seen in a long time!! Is this the Davis-Monthan of Africa? Those of us who have spent many, many, hours in a Shacking Great Fuc***ton would like a “Jim’ll Fix It” to get that airframe out of there and restored to, at least, ground-running – but (and I dream!!!) even flight-worthy. What’s the Google lat/lon?
Yrs Aye
Resmoroh
ResmorohDoes Hughie Idwal Edwards qualify? He was Strine, and Station Master at Wattisham in early/mid 1950’s. I think he only had one leg, and certainly flew!
HTH
Resmoroh
ResmorohI’d bet a fair amount of your pay/pension on that Unit Badge being Transport Command. MOGCB would have been an H/F W/T callsign (and, possibly, used on the Flight Plan). Might we just(?!!) be looking here at an IRIS a/c? I think IRIS was the acronym for the RAF “Inspectorate of Radio Installation Services”. Nothing more would cause the Air Traffickers at some far distant Outposts of Empire to worry about their sphincter muscles than to hear the vhf call “X – this is IRIS”. Fags were stubbed, coffee was spluttered all over desks, and – in general, upstairs in ATC – chaos reigned. Nay, even panic!! Been there – watched it. Ho ho.
Resmoroh
ResmorohRIP indeed.
But it should also not be forgotten that without Pearl Harbour, WW2 would have gone on well after 1945. The USAAF 8th Airforce would not have been in UK (and over Germany!). The TORCH landings might never have taken place – let alone D-Day in Normandy!!!
Those who died on the “Day of Infamy” may not have realised it but they shortened the War. Not, of course, that that’s of any comfort to their Rellies!
Respectfully
Resmoroh
ResmorohGentlemen All,
I thank you for your explanations as to why mass balances were needed, and used. A little bit more aviationeering understood! You will remember, though, in my original post that I said I was very interested in what materials might have been (or are!) used. I didn’t want to pre-empt any reply but the several separate mentions of Depleted Uranium has, I think, solved the problem.
Shortly after Chernobyl the UK Govt decided to set up a country-wide network of radiation monitoring stations. Quite a lot of these were on airfields (civil and military). One was installed in the middle of a fairly busy airport in the Midlands. After about a year’s worth of data had been recorded it was noticed that there were some persistent ‘spikes’ in the radiation levels above the normal background (not high enough to trigger the alarm threshold!). I was asked to investigate this. The data were analysed. All sorts of tricks were used. Did the spikes co-incide with the operation of any electrical equipment? (We’d had a radio controlled camera filming a Harrier test which kept firing off “random” frames. This was eventually traced to opening/closing the fridge door in the transport cafe in who’s car park we were working!!! – so you can’t be too careful!). No correlation. Did the spikes occur when it rained/thundered/hailed/ATC radio, etc, etc,? – no correlation. Finally, in despair, I plotted the spikes against wind direction – BINGO! They all came from 3 distinct directions – and were persistent. Half a mile to the NW of this airfield is a manufacturing facility. There were spikes when the wind blew from this direction. One mile to the SW is a similar facility – ditto. But, the third ‘spike’ direction was from the SE. No immediately observable industrial process there – except the aircraft handling apron!!! I think, Gentlemen, you may have solved a conundrum that has been bugging me for years. Thank you.
I have, by the way, no knowledge if the radiation monitor is still there, or which Govt Dept is now responsible for correlating the data. The Met Office had the monitors on a number of its sites, but simply passed the data on. The Home Office (Civil Defence lot) did a lot of work, but when they were done away with I have no idea where the figures went .
My thanks again
Resmoroh
ResmorohTangmere,
You’ve got it absolutely right, man. But these events thousands of miles away, and in WW2, are welcomed by the Govt (of whatever colour). They can trot them out in Parliament in the hope the The Media will be sidetracked into pursuing the issue (and forgetting that UK has just gone bankrupt!). And I thought that only happened in Banana Republics?
HTH
Resmoroh
ResmorohThe USAF ‘facilities’ at Ascension were considerably ‘tarted up’ before (a) the Task Force had cast off its mooring ropes back in UK, and (b) before the UK started doing very serious business from that base.
As regards the local Falkland population, you should be aware that they were known, to the initial UK forces, as “Bennies” (after some character – of limited intellectual ability – in a UK TV soap at the time.). An Official Order was issued that the term should not be used. This was obeyed. The local population were then referred to as “Stills” – because they were still Bennies!
Those of us who had some considerable contact (technical and social) with the locals were appalled to hear (not once, but often) that they would be very glad that, after removing the Argentines, would we please all go away and leave them to return to the way they had been living before the invasion. They simply could not get it into their heads that it was never, ever, going to be the way it was before.
We went along with the suggestion that the entire population should be forceibly evacuated and resettled in NW Scotland and/or the Outer Isles. It would have been considerably cheaper! The Falklands could then have been used as the world’s Nuclear Waste Dump (there’s only S Georgia and the S Sandwich Is downwind). But – as one wag pointed out – “Do you want, in 20 yrs, for the world to be taken over by 4 metre high penguins?”.
I have enjoyed the technicalities of the discussions on this thread – but the politics are slightly more complex. Just needs some clown to (a) confirm there is recoverable oil under the sea-bed in them thar parts and (b) some method of recovering it economically, and the bell will ring for the start of Round Two of the Great Falklands Unpleasantness.
I doubt if this helps – but it does seem a reasonable proposition. And the observations of the attitudes of the local population (as shown above) can – I suspect – be confirmed by many. And that is regardless of whether one was driving along Ross Road on the right, or left, of the road!
Resmoroh
ResmorohPse do thumbnails as you progress (forget the “Handbags At Dawn” exchanges on the politics of the possible/probable timing(s) of events). Defying the Laws Of Gravity has always intrigued me even though I was only an aviation meteorologist for more than 40 years. To see, in your detail, just how that was done is an education in itself!!
Tks
Resmoroh
ResmorohNot bored at all. Absolutely fascinating. Brilliant when it all comes together like that. Modern RAF personnel may not be as fit as we were – that’s because they don’t have to hump those damn great Storno “portable” (ho ho!) transceivers about.
Many tks for being able to “re-live” the experience!
Resmoroh
ResmorohHello All,
I have received a reply from the USAF Air Safety Centre at Kirtland AFB, NM. They have copied the Strategic Air Command formal convening notice dated 9 Dec 77. This notice lists the officers of the Board (all USAF), shows several photographs of the scene, and contains printouts of the pilot’s medical and flying history. The photographs have degraded with time and probably been copied (Xerox?) a few times such that they are simply “soot & whitewash”.
The text of the email simply says “This is all the USAF Safety Center has on this mishap. The original report was classified and at some point in time the report was destroyed.”
The alacrity of their reply is somewhat surprising, as is the statement that the report was destroyed.
You now know as much as I do. We feel that there is little hope of discovering anything new by pursuing this one any further. The only place left is the USAF Historical Agency at Maxwell AFB, AL, although the US Air Attache in London is doubtful if they keep Accident Investigation Board Reports.
I have reported my findings.
HTH
Resmoroh
ResmorohAbout half an hour ago I sent the first email off to Kirtland AFB, N Mex. Kirtland is where the USAF Safety Lot live. If a COI into Akro 77 was convened then the Report should be at Kirtland. This avenue of approach was dictated by the US Air Attache in London. I have to admit to being slightly suspicious of the “help” apparently being given by the Air Attache. Did he know that, at some stage, some CIA involvement would become apparent? At this point USAF procedures go out of the window!
BD – some of us have also been involved in investigating/witnessing accidents where the “bits” were all around. Not pleasant. It is, however, the duty of historians to conquer PTS symptoms in the search for The Truth. I, too, have recurrent nightmares about an event that took place at Wittering in the 1950’s. I appreciate your 30-year nightmares. My 50-year nightmares won’t go away either.
HTH
Resmoroh
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