ResmorohHi, all,
If anyone finds where any (or all!) of these Court Martial ‘skeletons’ are buried then it would a great service if it could be disclosed. One reads (in the LG, etc) that ‘X’ was Court Martialled, and ‘Dismissed the Service’. Whilst one can accept “Embezzlement of Mess Funds” – in the purely historical sense – as being neither here nor there, “Dereliction of Duty”, etc, can have some considerable bearing on ‘Operational’ decisions which may, or may not, have come into the purvue of the individual concerned.
It is – if I may pontify! – the duty of aviation historians and researchers to delve into EVERY aspect of decision making carried out by Squadron, Station, Group, or Command Staffs, and (in their turn!) to pontify (with the usual 20/20 hindsight!!!) on the possible effect on The War.
Little bits of the jig-saw help to build the ‘Big Picture’. Problem is we’ve lost the jig-saw box – with the picture on the lid!!!!!!!!!
Rgds
Resmoroh
ResmorohMondariz,
There was very little stuff still lying about in the “bundoo” in Cyrenaica in the early 50’s. I never saw any aircraft – just the odd ‘bits’. BUT – if there was any stuff lying about that the local Scrap Boys had not removed then you knew that even they considered it “Too Dangerous” to go and get! And don’t forget that there were, in those days, still millions of mines (both anti-tank and anti-personnel) scattered about (and still maybe for all I know!). Some of the oil exploration guys may be able to help you! They ranged far and wide (“Lady Be Good” for example!)
Every 3 months there was a Libyan Govt Heavy Convoy from Benghazi or Tobruk to resupply the oasis stations at Jalo, Giarabub, and Kufra. These convoys also carried meteorological supplies for the Desert Outstations – which was my connection. They were transported in huge (Italian origin?) diesel lorries. These would return “empty”, but were known to pick up “scrap” on the way back. This would have been accumulated by the local wandering Bedouin tribes. I spent some considerable time over (in the El Adem Station Flight Pembroke), and on (in the El Adem Desert Rescue Column), much of at least the northern part of Cyrenaica. It was easy to see where airfields/battles had been (piles of rusting jerry cans, etc, etc) but there was precious little evidence of (possible) recoverable aircraft parts.
Having said that, however, I’ll bet there is still the odd airframe somewhere in the Bundoo! Unlikely I know, ‘cos if the Oily Boys haven’t discovered it then it’s got to be pretty remote!! But much of, particularly, southern Cyrenaica is VERY remote. Been there, done it.
HTH
Resmoroh
ResmorohThe building with 4 columns looks like a pretty bog-standard Guard Room to me. On some Stations the Guard Room also housed the Armoury, but on the bigger Stations the Station Armoury was often in a specially strengthened section of the buildings on either side of the Eng Wing hangar.
HTH
Resmoroh
Resmorohf
Moggy,
You should know that ‘things’ in The Falklands did not entirely go ‘according to plan’ (was there, saw it, suffered from the admin c**k-ups). It might be added that after the ‘Armed Conflict’ (not a WAR please note!!!) was over The Locals just wanted us (the UK military) to go away and leave them as they had been before. They couldn’t realise that ‘it’ was never, ever, going to be as it was before!
Seaborne supplies (after the cessation of hostilities) were – to a large extent – somewhat ‘difficult’! The UK said “We’ve sent it”, but we couldn’t find it on the dockside!! It was not until a fairly large Lady Major (from whatever Army branch) arrived and took the problem (and, it is reliably informed) some persons by the scruff of the neck that things improved!
However, the precise location of yr indigenous Fordson tractor, and its load escapes me! There were so many!
Maybe a Puccara cockpit awaiting shipment from Pebble Island?
“Things” were shipped (by air, or sea) in, or out, of the Falklands Is which, by modern standards, would have given Loady’s (or their navy counterparts) the conniptions!!! If I said to you ‘mercury barometers’ and ‘aeroplanes’, I would be interested in your reaction..
Rgds
Resmoroh
ResmorohForgive me for butting in on this thread, but I don’t visit aviation museums regularly (I worked in several whilst employed with Her Majesty’s Royal Aeroplane Men!!! – but I jest!).
I’ve been to Hendon – not overly impressed.
However, having read this thread with some considerable interest, it seems that – quite by chance – I have visited possibly the best aviation museum by far.
It is the Evergreen Aviation Museum at McMinville, OR, USA. I was accompanying some American rellies. The Ladies were ‘shopped out’. I was bored out of my tiny mind, and they relented by allowing me to go to the museum.
It was brilliant. It had all the things that the various posters have highlighted in this thread as being A Good Thing. The retail outlets were very good (and low-priced – but I don’t know if there is any County, or State, funding). There were aircraft seats dotted about the display hall for those of us of advanced years who required a ‘sit down’ from time to time. The Ladies elected to sit. They were approached by a Staff Lady who first asked if they were all right, and then produced pix of WAAC, etc, WW2 uniforms. Now you will all know what ladies are like when clothes are being discussed. Say no more!
I wandered round the displays (Spruce Goose (gob-smacked to find!) – and a Vampire and Spitfire just to prove that the USA didn’t win WW2 single-handed!).
They were “doing something” to the Spruce Goose’. I watched with interest – and photographed unimpeded. One of the staff asked my interest. When I explained my meteorological aviation background he said “Come and have closer look”. And moved the ‘ropes’ so that I could get closer. You can ‘officially’ get to see a bit of the inside of that vast aircraft, but this guy produced a ‘Visitors Badge’ which enabled me to crawl into places the ‘public’ don’t normally see. Absolutely brilliant!!!
After about an hour, or so, I thought I’d better go back to the ladies. I was told by them to “Go away” as they were deep in discussions on uniforms, cabin service (I suspect the lady staff member was ex-airline cabin staff!).
All in all, a very satisfactory aviation afternoon. AND (most important!) The Ladies felt they had spent a very pleasant afternoon! Not, as I read the various threads on this subject, is often the case!!!
Sorry to ‘go on’ a bit but if there is an aviation museum in UK that offers the same facilities then I could well make the effort – and I’m in my mid-70’s!
HTH
Resmoroh
ResmorohTell me about both eyesight and senility!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (Got the T-shirts!!)
If nobody else wants to have a go at the crash location you could try Camps Hill, nr Bartlow. There is a big Barrow Cemetery there and that may be the site – or near – as these places were often known locally as “camp” and/or “hill”. Alternatively £7 will get you the Death Cert from GRO which should(?!!) give a closer location!
HTH
Resmoroh
ResmorohTangmere1940,
These might be candidates – but note the date!
MT494 NF30 25 Collided with MV529 on interception exercise and dived into ground Camps Hall Cambs. 23.1.45
MV529 NF30 25 Collided with MT494 during practice interception and crashed Camps Hall Cambs. 23.1.45
(from the DH98 Prod List)
HTH
Resmoroh
ResmorohIf it’s in a car park, and on wheels then I’ll give you Even Money it’s clamped within the day!!!!
Rgds
Resmoroh
ResmorohNice one, Kev!
This thread has generated much heat – but, I fear, very little light. Kev has got it just about right!
Rgds
Resmoroh
ResmorohY’all might like to know that the Met Office used to issue (and may still do so) very carefully constructed forecasts (twice daily) to Shoeburyness/Foulness to tell them if/where the soundwaves would impact in the surrounding area (including the N Kent coast). If the concentration was likely to be high in any area then firing/explosions were suspended
Ian Brown might also like to comment on “The Dreaded Radar Fuze”. This was a small radar device in the nose of a shell that was supposed to detect when it was near the target and then go ‘Bang’. The problem was, I think, (but Ian will correct me) that this radar gizmo couldn’t differentiate between the target and heavy rain!!! So if it was chucking it down then the round was likely to go ‘Bang’ before it should have done!! Some of the trials involved firing this round through sprays of water (to replicate various intensities of rain) to see if they could teach the software to tell one from t’other.. Bit simplistic – but you will get my drift.
Very interesting place.
HTH
Resmoroh
ResmorohWhen the Canadian Fighter-Jocks were at N Luffenham they woke up one morning to find a large white nanny-goat contentedly chomping the airfield grass (as nanny-goats seem to do!).
They rang Stamford Police and announced that they’d found “the lost white nanny-goat”. Stamford Police had no record of a “lost white nanny-goat”. Their advice was that, in the interim, if the Canadians would look after the nanny-goat then they, the Stamford Police, would “make enquiries”.
These enquries proved fruitless, so RCAF N Luffenham had to look after this beast. I am reliably informed (but have no proof!) that OC N Luff instituted The Order Of The White Goat. Officers, NCOs, or ORs, who had committed some infraction of the Rules were awarded ‘X’ days “I/C the Goat”!!!
Those were the days when humour was a part of Sqn/Stn life – rather than fearing the arrival of the ‘bean counters’!!
Resmoroh
ResmorohIt doesn’t make any difference whether it is real or fake. I would like to see the Flight Engineers Panel on such a monster!
I have had the priviledge of crawling over The Spruce Goose in Oregon. The diameter of the engine fuel supply pipes was enough to give any reasonable Flight Engineer the conniptions!! I would suspect, however, that there was (if this was ever real) some considerable delay between (a) an authorised, Pilot induced, Command function, and (b) it being transmitted to control surfaces, and (c) it actually happening!! Not, I suspect, a lively airframe!
Something like that could excite some considerable interest at Duxford. 8/8th’s ‘aluminium overcast’ could have had more reality than could be realised.
Resmoroh
ResmorohMaritime looking more likely (at this stage of the game) but never let us forget another ill-fated flyer who was Brother Elmer, who in 1010 repeated Icarus’ attempt by attaching a set of wings to his arms and jumping off the tower of Malmesbury Abbey. Needless to say the hopeless hanglider was seriously injured and never walked – or flew again. Presumbaly the pre-flight briefing was not as exhaustive as it might have been – or had Brother Elmer been engaged on “Cellar Testing” duties before his pre-flight?!!
Respects
Resmoroh
ResmorohOne can see why he was an ‘Aspirant Pilote’ for – at time of his death – nobody had actually invented aeroplanes!! We may be looking at a Ballooniste here? But how come a u/t French Pilot comes to be buried in Falmouth (before aeroplanes had been invented) is something I would dearly like to know!
It will, at least, take my mind off the continuing saga of the Brunty Tin Triangle (much heat generated, but not much light!)
Respects
Resmoroh
ResmorohOh ye of little faith! Could be some good stuff down there which might be dear to you hardware merchant’s hearts.
(And I agree, A-S pots are a pain!)
Rgds
Resmoroh
Sign In
