You sound like a Godless atheist communist with no respect to anybody’s religious beliefs and traditions.

He’s got a point there sferrin, to be honest you guys are talking about a storm in a tea cup. The RAF don’t seem to have a problem with it (The QRA boys will be pleased I would expect, The last time I saw a Russian aircraft get intercepted on a radar screen, everybody had big smile’s on their faces as its a lot more interesting than intercepting an Airliner that has forgot to talk to Air Traffic Control).

It’s most likely going to result in NATO demanding radar cover in the North Atlantic to be returned to the levels of 5 years ago. Also maybe F-15s going back on to Iceland, which is a downside in cost and the fact that some of the sites that would have to be reactivated are not what I would call the best postings in the world.

I’ve been researching a medal group to a distant family member, Edwin Bates who was killed flying an SOE drop with 138 Squadron in 1944. Its been a nightmare trying to find his origins as, although he’s shown as 30 on CWGC records, it looks like he was actually born in 1910 making him 44 when killed. Now although I don’t think he will be the oldest Bomber Command Casualty- there must be some senior officers past that age, I wondered who the oldest ‘crew’ casualty was?

Beyond the fact that he was either in very good shape or the recruiting Sgt was blind it’s an interesting twist on an already interesting story. (Chorley BCL 1944 bottom of p 159)

Before I start going through every volume of Bomber Command losses, any ideas?

Wg Cdr Vashon James ‘Pop’ Wheeler D.F.C. and Bar, M.C. and Bar, Order of St Stanislaus (Russia) RAF, CO of 207 Sqn. Killed in a Lancaster near Frankfurt on 23rd March 1944. Age 46. It’s the oldest guy I know of off the top of my head.

Fine if you want to bomb a known target or do a recce sortie if your base is a couple of hundred miles from your operating area, its not if you want to do CAS patrols with the minimum of tanker support. German Tornado’s are mainly operating where the Germans are, British Harriers are operating where the British are. Which just happens to be a damm sight more dangerous an operating area than where the Germans area, including the location of the airfield, which if the runway is damage, makes your Tornados on the ground a bit useless when they are needed. The Torndao is a Main Operating Base aircraft, The Harrier is designed to operate from anywhere. The conditions at Kandahar fall more into the anywhere category, than a Safe MOB one.

Haven’t seen you around for a while. 🙂

New job that on the road most of the time, No internet access at work plus only dial up at where I lodge during the week when not on the road (new place of work is 110 miles from where my house is and I can’t be arsed to drive for 5 hours a day (along with the fact that I can only claim 41 miles motor mileage). Plus shed loads of graphics work for a few projects on the side (Last RAF Jaguar print, End of RAF Jaguar book and some spitfire prints for somebody that lives in historic).

I don’t think so I recall that the remark was by Captain Eric ‘Winkle’ Brown on the Wyvern.

Well, checking the net on a number of forums, a lot of people say it’s the Botha, and I remember reading in a piece about the Botha years ago which had the comment in it.

The RAF were the first to sink a naval craft by a guided device as stated previously. The Luftwaffe first success was on the 27 August 1943 when the 40th Escort Group RN comprising two Destroyers and three small sloops was attacked by Dornier 217 E-5’s of KG-100 which split into three groups and launched seven Henschel 293 A1 glider bombs at the sloop HMS Egret which shot the first down, five missed and the last hit the munition store which exploded and the vessel sank with all hands. Information extracted from the book ‘DO 217-317-417 An Operational Record’ by Manfred Griel. Published by Airlife 1991.

Henschel 293 was a boost/sustain/coast weapon as it was rocket powered at launch (had two rocket motors if memory serves, one to get the weapon away from the launching aircraft (mounted below the weapon) and a short burning sustainer (in the tail) to allow some stand off between the launching aircraft and the target. It used the same guidance equipment as Fritz X and was defeated by the same ‘MAS’ jamming equipment fitted to most RN and USN ships as soon as we found out how both the German systems worked. There were two versions of the 293 that never entered service, which pointed the way for guided weapons. One was wire guided, while the other used a simple TV system in the nose with a data link to the launcher (just like the TV MARTEL used on the Buccaneer).

Forgive me a moment, but Ive never heard of this before. So, an allied aircraft was packed full of explosives, flown to target by a crew who then bailed out? That was some brave guys to do that. Were these crews given any medals or awards for these missions? As I say, Ive never come across this before. Bex

Like Lee Harvey Oswald, one of them killed a Kennedy (Joe Kennedy Jr). He was in the crew of one which exploded in flight before he could bail out in late 1944.