BIGVERN1966That makes sense but that sucker must have a LOT of insulation on it to keep the heat from deforming or prematurely igniting the sustainer. That and the booster propellent must burn relatively cool.
Most likely not that much insulation on the sustainer as the booster only burns for 4 seconds.
BIGVERN1966What I’d really like to know though is what the hell does the motor look like inside the casing (yes, the sustainer is inside the booster):
Length 108 inches
Diameter 14 inches
Weight 849 lbs.
Burn Time: 4.5 sec boost, 31 sec sustainMaximum Thrust 15,000 lbs boost, 1900 lbs sustain
Most likely something like this. Star Configuration propellant for the booster (Large surface area of propellant = lots of gas in a short amount of time, hence high power and large thrust). The sustainer is almost a solid stick of propellant that burns from the back end only, a much smaller surface area of propellant burns in a given time , hence lower thurst but the motor will burn longer.
BIGVERN1966RAF Operated Russian Air Defence Systems
Bigvern are they any pics of UK operated Osa?…or from where they came?
Three shots from the RAF Yearbook (2003)
SA-8 SPA-N on the range. 😀 😀 😀
SA-6 (Straight Flush Radar) on the range. (Note the external power modification to avoid using that Gas Turbine Generator which is an environmental hazard).
Straight Flush Radar in GAFE Section (German Air Force Equipment) being maintained.
BIGVERN1966Johnnie Johnson talks of the “aerobatic king of Tangmere” who could take a Spitifire II through three and a half climbing rolls straight of the deck He described him as “our new Flight Commander, a somewhat elderly and heavily mustachioed flight lieutenant.” (616 Squadron, Tangmere February-March 1941) Who was that man and what became of him? The three upward Charlies and half loop was apparently one more than Bader or anyone else could achieve.
I heard the story about this on a program about Bader years ago. Apparently everybody at Tangmere had tried to do the manoeuvre (3 Charlie’s were the target that everybody was trying to reach) and Bader had said was impossible in a Spitfire II (he’d done two and a half). That was until this guy turned up and did it. At that point Bader got a hump on and ordered the pilots to stop trying to do the manoeuvre.
BIGVERN1966Bigvern are they any pics of UK operated Osa?…or from where they came?
AFM did an piece about the range at Spadeadam a few years back, with a photo inside one of their operational SA-8’s, I think an RAF Yearbook also has an piece about the range. The other place to look is on the Spadeadam Web site (the two operational kits were coded SPA-R and SPA-N). They and the other real russian kits at Spadeadam were ex-NVA (East German), However all of the writing on the equipment is Russian (except panels nicked from ex Iraqi equipments which were written in Engilsh)
BIGVERN1966414 Squadron Air Training Corps cadets……my old squadron from the 80’s!
Epping wasn’t it?
BIGVERN1966SkyNews are 6 months too late on this. Actually, almost a year.
This story came out last OctoberBut the courts chucked out most of the claims 6 months ago
Since then, some news organisation brings it back into the limelight with renewed vigure every month or so, but there has been no new evidence. Just the same old whistleblowers piping their tune.
Was the case thrown out by that 99 year old judge that was mentioned on Sky News? From what I saw the whistle blowers were the QA people who’s jobs at Boeing were to stop what was claimed to be happening.
BIGVERN1966The UK doesn’t do expeditionary warfare?? What you been smokin? That’s all they do.
Not Quite Yet, however its all that some of our leaders want us to do!!! :rolleyes:
BIGVERN1966[COLOR=Black]
The “Ruhr Vally Express” is familiar to me. Is anyone able to determine the types of aircraft the art work is attached to?
Mostly Wellingtons and Halifaxs from the looks of things.
BIGVERN1966None claimed that a russian/soviet made weapons are “copies”.
Every system has to function under the special enviroment and doctrine at first. So a system showed different results under different conditions.
But none could deny that there are some “mirror” developments/procurements were made between bigger military powers to deny an opponent a possible advantage from that. It is clever always to copy the best “ideas” from your opponent to save related time and money. Please first sentence about that.
When in the West something is learned about a new system, it is from the start in the media. In the East the people learned from that, when it was presented in the public.
Before the Osa from FRG were handed to Greece, it was thoroughly tested and found capable, the yardstick was the Roland-3. The price-tag of the Roland 3 in mind, the present Osa is still a very good buy for most users.
Thank you for your dates, but my sources claim, that it was a naval-system at first and that the requirement for an army system have been issued around 1967. That the system was first spotted by Western intelligence in 1973, what does fit very well with the service entry in 1974.
If the FRG Osa’s in Greece are the same as the five that the RAF got then they are valve driven electronics (there are a lot of sub miniature tubes fitted in various modular units that plug into the equipment racks, if the valve breaks, replace the module. decent technicians required however as the is little in the way of built in test equipment (saying that the western systems at the time were the same, however the ECCM systems on the western were better (like they had some)) . I do happen to know a bit about the Osa having been an Operator Maintainer on it for six months at Spadeadam. I cannot be too specific on the capabilities of the system as it is classified in the UK/US on request of the Russians, however it is a well designed and very capable system for its era, only let down operationally by its lack of electronics capability (Its ECCM systems are not that hot (Sky Shadow will jam the sh*t out of it and it loves tracking Chaff), not a problem in daylight as the camera system is very good and it does has an Assisted (semi manual) Track facility, however it’s a different story at night as the camera is not a TI/Starlight device. If modified to interface with a modern computer signal processing system then I would still rate the system as it does have some good points over Roland and Rapier (its UK equivalent). It’s a fun piece of kit to drive as well, however at 60 KPH it does rock a bit and suffers from bad oversteer (caused by its four wheel steering).
BIGVERN1966Here is the new thread, a translation of the Swedish web site mentioned above . . .
http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showthread.php?t=61568
BigVern, please take note!
There will be an examination at the end of this week, so make sure you do your homework properly!!!
What’s the pass mark??? 🙂 🙂
BIGVERN1966Yes, around that time when I went with my Dad to London in the car it would take 2 days! Top speed 30 mph (Austin Ruby), 15 mph lorries and hold-ups in every village. Youngsters today with motorways don’t know they’re born!
Motorway, What’s one of them? None in my adopted county :rolleyes: (and not much in the way of Dual Carriageway except for parts of the A47 and almost the whole of the A11).
BIGVERN1966WOW some more brilliant shots of the Viggens!, the prototypes look in fantastic condition considering they are stored outside, thanks for the info on the Bloodhound.
Regards,
John.
John
On the Swedish site there is a very good colour picture of a early RAF Bloodhound 1 (if you’re building the Airfix Kit). The photo is most likely a 264 Sqn missile from North Coates (most of the initial Swedish personnel on the RB-365 and RB-68 did their training there with the RAF). The missile radome was originally a tan colour, however they were later gloss black. Missile was overall gloss white with black stencilling. Boost motors again all white with a brown band at the front just behind the forward boost attachment (looks red on the photo, I’ve seen video that shows it as brown (which is the colour that the boost band was on the Mk 2). Half of the Rear Nozzle on the boost was a metallic red. The small black mark at the rear of the lower ramjet is the Engine data plate. Port side on the upper engine, Starboard on the lower one. The metal covers on the ramjets are the handing fittings for putting the engines on the missile, they were replaced on operational rounds by fibreglass (cream coloured) weather covers that were blown off by the ramjet igniters. These are not moulded on the Airfix kit that show the missile in boosted flight configuration. The Mk1’s that had Squadron marking had them on the upper ramjet and they were usually stuck on, not painted (most of them were a RAF roundel with the Sqn bar markings on either side, however 141 Sqn had one with the lion’s head over the black bar with white triangles (like the 141 Sqn Javelin tail markings). Launcher is gloss dark green and is on a concrete base (The Mk 1 was not designed to be transportable, hence the Roy Cross Artwork is not accurate (The metal base area that the Launcher is sitting on was used on another form by the RAF and the Swedish AF on their deployable Bloodhound Mk 2 missile sections, However I think Bristols did display a launcher on that type of base at Farnbourgh one year (without telling the world that a big hole in the ground under the launcher was required for its services entry (Air, Electric, Control Signals and Hydraulic oil supplies)). I’ve got a scale plan of a Mk 1 firing pad somewhere on a disk and again I’ll dig it out and post it.
BIGVERN1966Well Bigvern you can try this translation website:
http://www.translation-guide.com/free_online_translators.php?from=English&to=Swedish
put the url in the box and highlight URL and select translate.
The translation is crude and headache inducing but it might help.
Cheers for the Link, Usual problem with on line translation however. Does not do Swedish Techie Talk, the same as the German ones were not that good for the Swiss BL-64 web sites (One Swiss site had the term ‘Handling Round’ in German (A handling round was a Mk 1 modified to Mk 2 dimensions for launcher loading training (didn’t matter if it got damaged too much)). Well on this on-line translator the term HANDLING ROUND came up as MANIPULATING TUBES!!!!) 😮 😮 😮
BIGVERN1966Of course the unfinished site Papa Lima links to is yours isn’t it Bigvern… 😉
Yep, and some day I’ll get around to finishing it (When work and other factors allow (like having the money to get the FOI requests sorted for the Type 87 and LCP with are still on 30 Year rule :rolleyes: ).
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