RAF CRESTS
WV. I’ll pop something here or PM you when something arrives. This is a big learning curve for both 1Group and myself The e-mail address I was passed was given to me privately so it is probably inappropriate I give it out on a public forum. I’m not hiding anything, just not betraying a trust. However, we are trying to find out if obscure stations (Ashbourne and Darley Moor) definitely NEVER did have crests and also how much the license is for black and white reproduction is for inclusion a commercial book.
From what I understand so far, if it’s private/academic/not-for-profit research, then the use is usually free. Need some info on this but still awaiting a reply!
Vern, that’s a really interesting remark. I knew that there were criteria laid down regarding publication and of course, the Royal Ascent part but this remark about 617 is really interesting. Also, I find you comment about posters quite illuminating. I would have thought (clearly I’m on the curve here!) that a poster, unless you are actually selling them, would not qualify as ‘profit-making’ exercise, as they are simply there to promote an event/attraction – or is that the trigger for a fee? I.e, it’s not personal/academic/not-for-profit etc. Any advice willingly & gratefully received!
Chris
Chris
My poster is for sale (its a wall poster / print of aircraft that flew from a base that has just closed, not an advert), hence I did have to pay a fee. If your doing a book you will need a Copyright Licence from DPA MoD IPR and if its for sale they will charge you, If its non profit, then it is free, However I do believe you will still need a licence (The HMSO cLink on-line licance does not cover MoD stuff). I’ve dealt with MoD IPR a couple of times and had no problems (they do the licences for MoD photos, extracts from AP’s and Unit Crests). Contact details below
Crown Copyright Administrator
IPR-Copyright Unit
POPLAR 2 #2218
Defence Procurement Agency
MOD Abbey Wood
Bristol
BS34 8JH
Tel: 0117 913 2862
Fax: 0117 913 2930
E-mail: [email]IPR-CU@dpa.mod.uk[/email]
Gary
It may be worth going to the source for the crests that you don’t have (it will most likely cost, but you will be able to most likely get full sized copies of the signed originals of all of the crests that you need and the ones that you already have. The originals are bigger than A4 sized).
Extract form College of Arms Web Site –
c) Inspector of Royal Air Force Badges
The Inspectorate was established in 1917. The current holder is Peter Gwynn-Jones, Garter King of Arms, appointed in 1996. The Inspector provides advice on all heraldic matters pertaining to the RAF, such as Squadron and Station Badges.
An archive of all official paintings is held at the College although this is not open to the public. Copy paintings of original badges may be commissioned on payment of a fee. Alternatively coloured photocopies of badges may be requested by letter after payment of a search fee of £20 (cheques to be made payable to The College of Arms).
Routine enquiries should be addressed directly to:
HQ PTC (LON)
Bldg 263
RAF Bentley Priory
Stanmore
Middlesex
HA7 3HH
As for the criteria for issue of a RAF crest, this information is from AP 3003 – A Brief History of the Royal Air Force.
All official insignia and badges in the RAF are strictly controlled by the Inspector of RAF Badges, an official of the College of Arms. All RAF Formations whether classified as operational or not can apply for the grant of the grant of a badge (The crest is granted to the Unit by the Sovereign, not the RAF).
The following provisions however have to be met: –
The unit must have its own separate establishment.
The unit must not number below 75 personnel
The Unit must have been in existence for 5 years and expect to continue for another 5, with the exception of having made some conspicuous contribution to the honour of the RAF. (Thus how the Dams Raid got 617 Squadron a unit crest within months of its formation)
However I’ve seen these rules bent on at least 3 occasions in my service career. The first two were Signals Units in the Falklands during 1989 (7 SU on Byron Heights and 751 SU on Mount Alice) which had a total of 34 service personnel on each unit. However both units did an exception job in very astute conditions, plus where very good at giving high ranking guests a good party. The other unit was a UK radar unit (144 SU) that had only 63 personnel on its books when it got its crest in 1993/4. However I think that unit had a replacement radar running concurrently (awaiting transfer from the Manufacture, which was a bit prolonged) that operated as 144 SU (Designate). Hence the Personnel establishment for both units came out at over 75 personnel.
Hope this is of help
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