Tom,
It’s always useful to provide a name as we can’t do any digging without that as a starting point.
However, should you not find what you are seeking here I recommend you ask the same question (with a name) on the Great War forum at http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?act=idx. This is devoted almost entirely to WW1 and includes a sub-forum The War in the Air which should almost certainly provide what you are seeking.
Trevor Henshaw’s book The Sky Their Battlefield lists a large number of casualties by name (just look in the index for your grandfather’s name), and I see this has recently been updated by The Sky Their Battlefield II (http://themilitaryreviewer.blogspot.co.uk/2015/04/the-sky-their-battlefield-ii-trevor.html).
Trevor posts on the Great War forum.
Brian
Thank you both for your prompt replies, gentlemen, they are greatly appreciated. I’m not sure why my search engine missed the link you posted PM.
Brian
True, but would the owner be prepared to lose the land; besides which would the County Council permit a change of use? Apart from WW2 the site has little history (in terms of years); Yatesbury, 5-6 miles to the south, has a far greater aviation heritage (1916- late 1950s(?)), and flying (microlight) continues. Weather-wise the site is very exposed, having a very steep slope to the immediate west and northwest, which makes it prone to low cloud and hill-fog in winds from a westerly point.
Re #8 and “ample grass runways ….”? Although some of the buildings have survived I think you will find that the whole site has been returned to agriculture. See http://www.content-delivery.co.uk/aviation/airfields/ClyffePypard.html.
Re #6: See http://www.content-delivery.co.uk/aviation/airfields/ for a list of active and disused airfields together with associated satellite imagery.
Reference JB’s post at #64.
There is indeed a file with the MoD and, following a FOI inquiry by Jack’s family, it is to be forwarded to the National Archives for public viewing – albeit with certain sections removed. Time-frame not given.
Brian
Yes, I appreciate that, but in this case I was scanning through the pages out of curiosity, and thought I recalled that the last page was in the distant past – much as on the RAF Commands forum (not that I’d go so far back). It’s not something I do very often, but one month seems a very short time-frame.
Moggy,
I’ve tried to access your link several times, even rebooting, but each time I’m told “You do not have permission to access this page“.
Is this correct?
Brian
AA
Contact me at monbryth AT aol DOT com and I’ll send the newspaper report.
Brian
Edit. There might be a comment in either the Lympne ORB (AIR28/509) or Hawkinge ORB (AIR 28/345)
The Times article is actually detailed and quite lengthy, but it would appear the aircraft was probably damaged, not destroyed. The aircraft circled over Hawkinge watched by those on the ground and:
They were astonished to see it descend so low, for at one moment it almost struck the roof of the Officers’ Mess. Just afterwards it struck a hedge and crashed in a field about 200 yards from the aerodrome.
Edit. Perhaps I should have added it was followed by another Lympne aircraft.
Brian
Gerry,
I’m unable to help with the table’s provenance, but the inlay at the bottom of the first photo (and repeated along the other segments) appears to represent the cardinal points of the compass. If I’m correct might it possibly come from a Flying School establishment? Could the style of the ‘wings’ inlay provide an indication of the era during which it was made?
Brian
Re Alan’s post #7.
I don’t think there was any official procedure whereby WW1 observers (ie non-pilots) were given rudimentary training in piloting an aircraft. However, it was obviously in the interests of both pilot and observer that the latter had some knowledge – although any ‘training’ depended entirely on the former’s encouragement. This from a letter written by 2nd Lt C K M Douglas to his parents on 27 July 1916:
Our machines are ordinary biplanes with engines in the front. They have dual control so I am getting some practice in flying, which is of course, very easy high up.
Douglas had just transferred to 34 Squadron which was flying BE2e’s at the time; his pilot was usually 2nd Lt Horsefield. The ‘practice’ to which Douglas refers must have been whilst on patrol as his log book makes no reference to any other flying activity.
Brian
Greg,
These reports from The Times might be of interest; notice the different serial numbers quoted – one appears to be a typo.
Saturday 18 December
Aeroplane’s fall in Irish Channel
Crew picked up by steamer
Lloyd’s agent at Holyhead telepgraphed last evening:-
Aeroplane Handley Page J2559 reported dropped into the sea 15 miles northwest of Holyhead. Steam lifeboat proceeded to render assistance. Later report received states that the crew have been picked up by a passing steamer.
Monday 20 December
Airmen rescued at sea
Wireless call for help answered
The survivors of the British RAF Handley Page aeroplane which, as reported in The Times on Saturday, came down in the Irish Sea on Friday, were landed at Liverpool on Saturday from the Elder Dempster steamer Itajahy. The occupants of the aeroplane numbered seven, all of whom have been rescued. They refused to make any statement, except that they belonged to the RAF and the machine was Handley Page J2259. The aeroplane left Chester for Holyhead about noon and while they were out at sea engine trouble developed. Before the aeroplane dropped into the sea a wireless message was sent out calling for assistance, and there were several replies. After sitting on the wings of the aeroplane for two hours the crew were rescued by a boat lowered from the Itajahy. The rescuers were only just in time. Within 15 minutes of their rescue the aeroplane disappeared.
As regards the reports in the provincial papers, I believe that the practice at the time was for editors to lift reports from national papers (frequently The Times) and modify them according to local needs (aka filling a gap in a publication)
Brian
Having started this thread back in 2006 I somehow seemed to have missed Dragonflyer’s comprehensive answer to my original query. For this I apologise, and am extremely grateful as it provides all the information Peter (Resmorah) and myself were initially seeking. Thank you.
To be honest I’d basically given up on the thread around #16 as I have an intense dislike of reading posts that claim to know what happened – but refusing to give the source.
While I can understand the reasons why the whole of the Safety Board report could not be published, the fact that the powers that be do not appear to have released a summary seems to be a PR error which led to the misleading accounts that appeared over the years.
I know Jack Flawn’s family, and they had been given no information about what happened, in fact they were sent back to the UK very quickly after the accident. That was the situation when I last spoke to them a couple of years ago when they were still asking “Why?”. One would have hoped (expected) that some information would have been given to them.
Jack Flawn rests, with his wife, in at llanina Church, just north of New Quay, Ceredigion, overlooking Cardigan Bay on which he loved to sail.
Brian
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Pissant
Why not just Google ‘pissant meaning‘ or even just ‘pissant‘ to find the answer. It’s amazing how useful the internet is.
Just to complete my #13, the aircraft that crashed at Manston was TE808, and the one at Lichfield was TA507.
The third Mosquito crash on the 18th was VA887 of 139 Sqn at the Coningsby BoB display; this from the 20 September edition of The Times:
A Mosquito crashed near Coningsby, Lincolnshire, an hour before a Battle of Britain programme was due to begin on Saturday. The pilot, Sqn Ldr G W Curry, who had led the wartime raid on the Dortmund-Ems Canal, and Cpl H Davies, were killed.
The report might be in error in respect of the time, as other reports imply the aircraft was recovering from a slow roll below its briefed height, and hit the ground during the display. (http://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=73644).
Brian
PS: Davies was a passenger.