yeah right! what makes you think those are the only things to look for in comapring aircraft? i guess 747 would be supirior to the MKI to considering its nose is bigger and it has a far greater range and load carrying capacity. you logic also makes the F15A supirior to most other light fighters. on of the worst ways to compare fighters really.

Gripen’s strenght lies in its netcentric warfare capability. which is the number one reason i think it will do absolutely nothing for Pakistan considering they do not have the required infrastructure to make the gripen work as a system. all modern 4th/5t gen aircraft are required to work as a part of a system. with pakistan getting Gripen it will rely on GCI alone (or possible an AEW/C if they somehow manage the funds)
not enough to do much really when the enemy comes armed with better force multipliers and far greater ELINT/COMINT/SIGNINT assets.

Dude. Get a brain and learn to read between the lines. You have a serious problem with anal retentivity. Learn to pay more attention to what people say instead of merely shouting some sh!t which frankly is tiresome.

Heavier- as in larger, more capable fighter. Has more space to carry more avionics and sensors

And yes- the F15 is superior to most light fighters. Go ask a freakin fighter pilot. .

And wtf do you know of the MKI’s n/c centric capability pray tell?
If you applied any sense of logic- the MKI has more ability to lug more electronics than any light fighter.

And as to the Gripen doing nothing for the PAF- haan they are all jokers etc?
Lets not underestimate them.
Why the heck do you think they are asking for the Gripen?

They cant compare to what we have but they’ll make do with what they can get. Do understand.

Also in any conflict- the PAF has lesser areas to defend and a relatively fixed defensive posture. The geographical terrain leads to shorter lines of comms to boot. The end result is that they can use a light fighter like the Gripen.

[QUOTE=crobato]I would have to seriously and sincerely disagree that the Chinese would not go ahead. I know it defies some logic but I believe they seriously would.

And they [b]will[/b].

Radars are small potatoes compared to engines. It was previously understood that the Su-27 license means that as much as 70% of the content will be indigenous, but the Russians will retain 30% of their own content. That was understood to be the engine, radar and avionics to be part of the 30%.

Understood from where? Which report exactly and with what certainty?

Yet the Chinese made it public they actually flew a J-11 with one domestic engine in one side, and the AL-31F in the other. Recently we got solid photos of a J-11 with both engines using the purported WS-10A.

That was for the J10 program was it not? Thats hardly comparable to shifting over to WS10’s for the J11 fleet overall.

Once again, radars are small potatoes compared to engines. If they can do it with engines, they would do it with the radar.

Apples to oranges. The example you have quoted is non contextual.

Already Phazotron has leaked out that the Chinese are involved in a project intended to replace the radar of the Su-27 with one of their own.

Report please.

The rather surprising cold “consideration” the Chinese gave on the SKM upgrade proposal is another pointer that the Chinese are running their own project.

Not necessarily. They may be holding out for a better price or better specs or both.

I would agree on that. However there are indications that the Chinese are not entirely happy with the N001VEP upgrade. It creates a modernized and upgraded product, but not a superior one that gives an edge over its enemy. With the ability to track while scan 10 targets, engage two simultaneously, and a range of 90-110km lockon against a 3m2 RCS target, its not any better than the radars used by its opponents across the Straits.

Not better perhaps, but still a handful by any means.

Even with modern electronics, it is still a radar set with an antiquated twist cassegrain antenna. Even by Chinese standards that is quite obsolete. Even the JH-7s, the J-8IIs and the latest J-7Gs all got slotted planar arrays. Such an antenna design gives superior azimuth and elevation scans with lower sidelob interference.

Yup, thats common knowledge.

NIIP Tikhomirov knows the problems and plans to change the antenna with the PERO phase array. But that may prove even more costly. China no appears to be going down the “Panda” radar proposal roadmap envisioned by Tikhomirov, and instead, on the Su-30MK3s, is going for a change of vendor—the Zhuk MSE by Phazotron. The Zhuks use slotted arrays.

Exactly. So the point is that Russia would still rather have its products on the Flankers and perhaps the PlAAF itself is waiting for the local upgrades to mature before it contemplates an expensive and time consuming transition.

This may indirectly relate to the Chinese Su-27 upgrades; the Chinese may jump over the proposed N001VEP based upgrades in favor of a domestic solution using either a slotted planar array or even a phase array design. NRIET institute has made so many breakthroughs lately and China appears willing to exercise its newfound capabilities.

Again- what do we have apart from a handful of pics and few and far between reports? Breakthroughs? Sure, why not. But that still doesnt imply a tried and tested product from a manufacturer with a proven name (tried and tested wrt the lineage) and again we simply do not know whether the Russians will agree. In fact, given what I know of them I’d wager they’ll put a spanner in the works if China attempts to remod the Flankers on its own.

Save that for the negotiation table. You keep underestimating how much Sukhoi depends on Chinese business. Not counting the 1 billion Su-30 orders given out each year, China orders 200 million in spares and parts alone each year since last year. On the contrary, Sukhoi might be willing to accomodate or “let it slip” in order to keep that business. And China will reward Sukhoi with continued business. This is not to mention that China and Sukhoi may also have more unrevealed business.

So what. Many Russian enterprises are TOTALLY dependent on Indian largesse. But they still do everything to have things their own way.
Again we are speculating on “he said she said”. Do we have conclusive evidence either way?

The seeker is definitely Chinese—Huoyang Institute under the CPMIEC umbrella. I don’t think the Russians would ever release the seeker alone to the Chinese—that would be like cutting their own throat. It is simply illogical. The datalink could be AGAT’s, which is Belarussian, the only reason for using an AGAT datalink would be to help integrate with the Russian systems.

Source?

Phazotron did indeed reveal that China and Russia are co developing a compatibility project across their radars and missiles to enable each other’s radars to work with each other missiles. The benefits are obvious. For example, a J-10 with domestic radar can shoot the R-77, or an Su-30MKK with Russian radar is able to launch a C-803 AshM.

Sure. Thats exactly what I said. Phaza will make sure its fingers are in the pie.

The Su30 MKI is superior to the Gripen . Its a heavier bird, can carry more ordnance and has longer ranged sensors. Having said that, why compare?

The Gripen is a beauty by itself. And being a single engined, light fighter designed for the requirements of the Swedes, it will be by necessity less powerful than a Su.

Lets leave this thread to the Gripen pls and lets leave the IAF out of it.

Hatoum- since you behave decently on Acig, why not do the same here and avoind raising topics that could lead to raised passions and flame baiting?

Is the Collins that mixed up? You joking…

Well one alarmist and over-rated analyst by the name of Carlo Kopp can rest easier now. :rolleyes:

.

Well Glenn, Carlo wants the F-22. If he has to say that the MARTIANS are a threat- he’ll do so.

And is Kopp treated seriously? Afaik- he is regarded as an alarmist by serious folk..

To get back back to the topic, I would like to point out the most significant aspect of buying French which has been ignored so far in this thread.

>> After Sales Support <<

:rolleyes: