InsigI think there is slight miss reporting by the press — I am sure what he actualy says is that the remaining 3 SAAB aircraft will be delivered by end of 2011 and that Pakistan is in negotiations with the Chinese for AWACS aircraft and once the negotiations are complete they will be in a position to sign the contract ie he does not give a timeline for delivery of Chinese aircraft.
I was a bit surprised by this because – based on previous Government statements – I thought this was a done deal. Probably what they have done so far is agree the requirement, arrange credit — and left PAF to work out the details / performance requirements / evaluation before signing the dotted line.
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I think it is optimized for getting the best deal for the best price. So the negotiations are done with those that know what they want and how much they should pay. But indeed your comment when to receive the other Saab2000 is strange. The data in the past showed delivery of the remaining three aircraft in 2010. To me it is strange that another year is passed before the next plane is delivered. The plane are known and were already processed by Saab to be fitted with the beam. Is Ericson needing another 12 months? I doubt that. I think the info is wrong.
About the Chinese AWACS. I think like the J10 the Chinese need their planes and there is no room for export. And one needs to understand that negotiations with them are not a walk in the park.
InsigOK One last time.
MK1 already has an engine its the GE F404 IN. MK2 will get either the EJ200 or GE F414.
It has already so has the Defense Minister.
http://www.thehindu.com/2008/12/05/stories/2008120556261400.htm
Like we are pledging support to the PAK FA. Like many around the world are counting on the F 35.
MKI has underpowered engine or is heavier then wished. I do not see them having it in service cause it is an experimental. MK2 is still a paper project. We need to see how long it wil take, how it will evolve and if the engine will be part of it. Pledges in the western world are different. Indian projects are launched with a certain national pride and often they were bridges to far. I do not want to name projects but the results were often lower then the plans. And comparing it with F35 is something unrealistic. Top countries join to make the latest compared to LCA-Mk2?
InsigIt is their first of this engine and I think it will be upgraded to be as good. They probably will have to reduce risks to get it on the single engined FC20/J10 but I have the feeling that it is the reason why PAF will get FC20 in 2014/2015. So they will have it one year ahead of that. 2010-2011-2012-2013 is enough time to mature. Looking at the speed the Chinese evolve I think that they might be faster then the predictions we make.
InsigBoy, Don’t expect any reply from anybody in this thread for your Troll.
insomnia.delhi,
Did IAF mentioned about a deadline date for LCA in any place first? If so give me a source for that.
If you don’t have that, Listen to This one last time. IAF is now part of the LCA Project. They know better than any of us when LCA MKII will be ready for induction.
Given the history he did make valid remarks. Your reply is more like flaming.
InsigBack then the Indian Bison was seen as superb against American F15’s and now it is a Chinese plane flying in Pakistani colours.
InsigGood prospect to have a all Chinese FC20 being sold to Pakistan. I think it is a matter of fine tuning the engine and we will see it end up in single engine fighterjets.
InsigAmazing.
I just wanted to correct someone who wrongly claimed
1) LCA is “certain” to be inducted in numbers
2) IAF was sole operator of Gnats an Jags.I proved that person wrong. Suddenly 3 other posters accuse me of
“Hate”, “spamming”, “troll”.
I anyone can post a single peice of evidence that I have indulgd in name calling or spamming PLEASE POST MY QOUTES.
If proving you wrong on several suumption you make is “hate” of “trolling”, thats actually something you may have to start actually dealing with.
Nirav/Teer/Whoever
As you should well know going but recent Indian projects. The backing of senior officers or service checifs does not nessacarily mean a project gets off the ground and is nducted in large numbers. The Arjun tank is a example of this. My point is stll valid. LCA is way off being “certain” to be inducted in large numbers.
All you know have to do is respond with FACTS, not “senior officers think” or “I consider” etc etc.There is no “hate” being shown anywhere on here by me, others may d. If I was the mods would do something. They have not.
Deal with it.
This topic is not for flaming (as written in the title). Strange cause every topic should be free of flaming so I am suprised that it is part of a title. I think it should be ok to be allowed to posts facts or to share non discriminating opinions. But I agree with Rimmer that certain posters are using wrong language. It shouldn’t be allowed. It is all about aviation. We go into pride and joy but we should not make it personal. None of us have worked with these projects and neither are we responsible. If you disagree then do not make it personal.
InsigRahul, F-16 Block 1 and Block 60 also have more than significant differences? Can they be called different aircrafts?
Vikrasrehman, LM calls them entirely different.
InsigCorrect. MKK is different! But I meant all the Flanker derivatives are a beauty. The only problem is that we need to see them more often. 🙂
PS I still find it strange that China did not go for TVC and Canards. Personally I think that it adds the punch in some situations.
Insig>>>the su-30mki had been ordered when there were no other air forces operating the type nor planning to do so. even now, quite significantly, the country of origin does not operate the type or even a similar derivative.
I think that every plane can be country specific. In case of F16 you might be wondered that they have that. And so they test every plane like a new system before delivering it. You can go to the most simple planes in PAF service. J9 had Pakistan specific parts. J6 had that. JF17 has that. Block52 has that. The block15 had it. FC20 will have it. Let us look at Dassault. They had Mirage 3/5 and just look at the derivatives…
So I am not wondered that MKI is special. But so is MKK and MKM and and and… I say that SU30MK is a type. India was the first ordering it. And I think it is one hell of a plane. Just like the oher derivatives.
InsigThanks. I was looking for this a very long time. Congrats. Looks nice.
InsigF-22 & EFA ….. :confused:
In a typical operational service life of Tejas, the fighter which would come as a opponent to a LCA would be JF-17, J-10, F-16 block 52 and may be Su-30 MKK. I am happy even if it could outperform the JF-17, J-10 and block -52 :diablo:
– I think that both LCA and JF17 will not meet eachother during any wartime scenario. Both nations have better planes with better weapons. LCA will not go deep inside Pakistan and I doubt that JF17 will go far into India. They will serve probably for national defence and leave offensive tasks to better suited planes. J10, Block52, MKI, Mirage 2000, Mig29 are just a few names.
– If LCA would be that good that it beats F22 then it would have been export product. Now it lost even national fight and ended with the title experiment. That are unfortunately the facts. The Chinese, Russians, Europeans are making huge investments to counter F22 or even the lesser F35 but I doubt that LCA is designed or in reality is able to beat something like F22. That is no sarcasm.
I hope the naval version will see a better future. I do not hate it cause if you love planes then it should not matter where they are produced. And even it does not win it doesn’t mean it is not a plane. 🙂
Insignot a big deal but avoiding it would have saved them (and you :p ) some embarrassment !
/spoken in jest, in case people misunderstood.
Rahul,
I think it is not a big deal. We can make unimportant points very important cause it is internet but the bottum line is that they got refuellers. Making “tough” remarks will not change the reality. We have seen more highly creditted firms and books posting the wrong. I have seen forums talking about LCA beating F22. Let us move towards something valuable. 🙂
Insig@ whomsoever it concerns: I think the LCA is a wonderful and fluffy aircraft that can match the F-22 and the EFA in the air as it has the most amounts of composite materials.
The naval LCA is a good case to see how it evolves. Personally I think with the cash and the number of planes and options he IAF has to import they should go for something else. But if they look at the history of bad projects then they can try to have the next better. They can always open up a can of foreign consultants and parts.
LCA beating F22 is unrealistic. Having so many composites does not make it better. And even with that much composites it is still in need for a foreign engine cause it is underpowered.
InsigOf cause it is a big deal. It does prove that they have not a high opinion about the own people at least. There is no military reason to justify such behavior.
That is your opinion. Making it like an elephant is something that we skip. Surely we find it strange and laugh but we are talking about nations that have press that most of the times not even have the idea what they are talking about. If they used another tanker to show how it would be then I take that as a normal action. Shouting like “having no high opinion aboiut the own people” sounds childish to me. It is more like trying to ruin the topic like the other oneliners. Senseless.
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