According to well informed source (Usman, Pakdef), PAF received 600 gallons fueltanks for block15 F16 to have a better loiter time.

Indian Air Force to meet future needs indigenously

So India is not at this moment able to meet the standards of superpower cause it imports only. Sounds a bit contradiction if you read that LCA is a 4,5 gen aircraft and fully Indian or the fact that MKI, one if the best planes according some, is produced in India.

Let us look to the future. If India cannot produce planes like LCA and buys MRCA and probably finances PakFa then what are the prospects of able to handle high tech in the future. It isn’t a simple jump on the train. You need decades of knowledge and infrastructure. The advantage India has (manpower and time differende = helpdesk/software centers) is not making it go towards indigenously developed anything. The way LCA was tested is logical. If needed get foreign consultants and if cheaper get foreign parts… It will not make you indigenous in a decade but it will start developing infrastructure. Otherwise we will have enough fizzles like the Indian nukes.

my 2 cents.

I want China must claim New Delhi as a part of China, then our PM will say, “No, it is an integral part of India.” :rolleyes:

China not only gave Pakistan nuke weapon design but also tested the weapon for Pakistan. It is told by the top Pakistani scientist.

And please cut some of your extra-love for USA. They did a worse job then Pak-China for India. A known enemy is better than a unknown ‘friend’. They were well aware of Pakistan’s nuke business as well as using aid for military purposes. They did the same for last five decades. I am not against Indo-American cooperation but they back stabbed us many times, cooperating with China and Pakistan. They did in1965, 1971, 2001 and again in 2009. In 965 Pakistan fought with huge and latest American gifted weapons. In 1971 they wanted to fight along with pakistan and tried their best to pass a resolution in the UN. US supported successive military regimes in Islamabad. The gave Pakistan huge $$$ as a gift for war on terror but with the same $$$ Pakistan bought weapons from USA while ‘recently’ USA came to ‘know’ that Pakistan diverted the aid to strength their capability against India!!! The latest addition in the Obama govt which will gift $ 7.5 billion for next few years. When Bush wanted a strategic alliance against China along with India, Obama currently turned 180 degree from that view, leaving India alone. Same did Nixon.

Not a single part is correct and totally unrelated to the topic.

>>>There has been a flurry of reports in Indian media of Chinese incursions along the border — shrugged off by both governments — and Delhi this month protested against a Chinese embassy policy of issuing different visas to residents of disputed Kashmir.

I think the Indian media is hardly reliable. We heard several items that were unrealistic and I have been watchin the media and the way they tell it sound a bit nationalistic and sensational. That is my opinion. An IAF chief telling political things is a bit out of context if you ask me.

Lockheed Martin today unveiled the first of up to 36 F-16 Block 52 fighters that could be sold to the Pakistan Air Force in a ceremony attended by the chiefs of both Pakistani US air forces.

Funny but reality. I think the Pakistani need it desperately to counter terrorism during night. You just cannot win a war if you start running around (with massive force) during hot daytime and wait to be killed by IED that are burried during night. I think the only way to win a war like this is massive UAV’s during nighttime and F16 + Cobra fully active during night. This way you decimate the terror. Otherwise it will spread all over Pakistan and through Kashmir towards India. I hope they can start using them asap and like the guest Hakkani says… “the moment they arrive they will start war missions…”

My friends here explain that Z9 is worser then KA28… In what? Well. There are advantages and disadvantages to a double rotor. Maybe it is a way to master this technology by China. Like they are busy with Jxx and yet intrested in naval Flankers. The fact that they wanted to have 2 planes shows that it is certain policy that makes China grow extremely fast. The South African were only asked to deliver a few parts so exporting Z9 while buying Russian has probably different logic then Ankush writes.

India invests billions, millions because it can afford to hanker for the entire range of technologies available in the market. Clearly, Pakistan cant, and has to settle for JF-17s to replace earlier aircraft, otherwise given a choice between the likes of the aircraft in the MMRCA contest, the PAF would have been beside itself to get hold of them. In matter of fact, the PAF cannot even afford sufficient numbers of Block 50/52 Vipers per its original needs & that too, the Block 50/52 is behind the Block 60 equivalent F-16 India is evaluating as part of its MMRCA contest.

So your comments are just sour grapes.

That apart, lets have a look at India’s aerospace – the breadth & scope dwarfs Pakistans.

Transports: Do228 license produced, SARAS (own design) + new versions, MTA (JV with Russia)
Pak? None.

Fighters, trainers: LCA, HJT-36 (own designs), Su-30 MKI licensed, MMRCA licensed
Pak: JF-17, K-8 both licensed

Helicopters: ALH, LUH, LCH, Medium Helicopter
Pak: None

…etc etc

I mean you talk as if adding a RWR is simple. Sure – very simple, which is why India is currently in the fifth iteration of its RWR family & the latest version, the R118 is equivalent to tactical ESM systems in terms of sensitivity, can you tell me a single family of RWRs, Pak produces of its own design? And not the license produced Chinese one at the Grifo factory.

Meanwhile in 2007,
http://frontierindia.net/sangraha-for-indian-navy

And whats more interesting, the latest version of the KITE can track 64 emitters & the next series of systems are in development already. India is on its third iteration in terms of jammers as well…but again, I am sure you consider everything simple ..

And in fighter tactical RHAW suites, India is done with Tranquil (MiG-23BN, 27), Tarang (MK1, MK1B) and is now with R118 MSWS…

And about the MKI & Irkut – yeah, well India wants planes fast, so they are asking Irkut to produce MKIs in parallel and send them to India. But even those planes receive components made by HAL & BEL, shipped to Irkut, & integrated.

Funnily enough, I havent heard even one such event in the case of Pak & the JF-17 or J-10.

I mean, India is upgrading its Jaguars on its own, it did the same for its MiG-27s as well, using a host of local made parts as the heart of the upgrade, its LCA derived computers. Where are Pak’s JF-17 derived systems going into its Mirages or F-7s?

The simple fact is that you & your ilk start flaming, frothing at the mouth, and gibbering angrily when 21Ankush asks a very simple question – what has Pakistan made of its own design in the JF-17, to which so far only Vikas Rehman has given a honest answer – that he doesnt know for sure, but hopes & expects that there is something. Its a fair reply.

My take is that given the amount of publicity Pak gives to any tech contribution from its side across different weapons programs, it would have definitely stepped forward for its share of the JF-17 publicity as well, if there had been significant accomplishments of the s. That it hasnt, speaks volumes, to me at least.

Now you can flame all you want, but its still the fact that Su-30 MKM and MKAs exported to Malaysia & Algeria both rely on Indian radar computers, whereas Algerian MKAs also rely on Indian expertise in display processing. That apart, India’s MKIs run on an Indian avionics heart, namely the Vetrivel mission suite with Indian mission computers. India is integrating new systems on to the MKI using its own avionics rigs as well.

The question is – where are Paks contributions to the JF-17 in a similar light, for you to even put it at the same level as the Indian contribution to the MKI? Let that be the starting point!

Answers, answers..

Let us not focus on that. But telling that India is doing more then just assembling MKI and adding a few boxes is pretty funny. Your remarks about Pakistan (I mean you are not even able to write more then Pak) show that you cannot even look beyond personal hatred.

India wants them fast so Irkut makes them… That still makes me say that you do not design, manufacture or test them. You are a buyer with few parts added from whatever. It means the same if Pakistan gets J10 and adds Martin Baker and an Pakistani antenna or ACMI instruments to say that J10 is produced in Pakistan…

Please do not start the usual blaming to others of flaming. Just read the comment if your side in Chinese topic. No one is calling that wrong so be nice and accept healthy and correct questions. Let us return to the topic please. I try not to laugh when I read your post so be nice.

While such figures differ from site to site, according to the official display at IDEAS-2008, empty weight for JF-17 is 14,520 lbs, NTOW is 20,000 lb (includes wingtip missiles), and thrust for RD-93 is 19,200 lbs.

As for what PAF and IAF want from their fighter, I think we all recognise what each airforce wants from its respective fighter, and its not a good idea to talk in such terms.

If India has only great fighterjets like LCA and the best pilots then why would they invest billions of USD buying foreign trainers, fighterjets and training? They have the golden plane called LCA that can counter anything inside Pakistan. I would expect a downgraded LCA for other developed nations. Surely a bit irony but it shows that we can counter these Ankush statements with a simple smile.

LCA is still a development that needs a lot of time to get anywhere. The naval version is not even going to start cause no one is intrested in helping. India joins PakFa cause it needs a partner that gives 100% input. India want a foreign trainer, transporter, choppers, fighterjets cause it can not develop it without any help. You can make anything out of that but these are the facts. And if some wants to say that MKI is Indian. Latest AFM says is perfectly. There is an article about Irkut prodution of MKI. Everyone is invited to read that. And if some still think that adding a RWR is making a multimillion plane suddenly build somewhere else then so be it.