Any source to substantiate this rather than an off the book remark by the PAF chief ?

We know the press quality in asia. I think we need to see the video first and if he said that then I think we can trust it. I doubt that a Pakistani ACM tells lies. But is does sure sound strange. Selling what? Drone technology? That I can understand. But selling parts for planes is not something possible. BUT… If you know that the block52 have the large Israeli wing fueltanks then you can conclude something else. The usual trick of setting american firm in between to hide that.

There are many rumours at this moment. Godh, I just like the US media where you get full info about the projects (unless they are black and high technology). Here you have to translate everything, try to see through the lines and cut wrong info…

>>>Some headlines regarding the exercise on ARY network,

1: JF-17 participates, hooks up with the AWACS and successfully executes it’s mission.

2: The exercise includes carrying out both conventional and non conventional missions during any eventuality.

3: Air to Air refueling has been carried out with ease and success.

And this is very interesting, according to the Air Chief, through back channels,Israel has approached and offered military equipment to Pakistan.

I personaly think that nuclear energy is not the solution for a nation with one of the largest coal reserves. Besides that the nuclear waste is a terrible thing no one can handle sofar. Not related to aviation but had to say.

I am suprised the are that many going to meet eacother. Looking forward to the delopments and hopefully a stable region. I doubt there will me more giving/selling/TOT but maybe…

Can you imagine? USA buying Arjun, Akash and LCA? And they should consider the anti ballitic missile. I Think it would be a challenge to get them.

Arey, it is open knowledge that Pakistan is negotiating very hard for the J-10s (probably not the J-10B). I said, there is a murmur in Pakdef forum, that there is a stall in pricing. Pakistan wants to pay $25 million per unit, while China wants $40 million. The member who claims this, is a former F-16 pilot of the PAF. Now, if you don’t believe your own pilots, then I can’t help it.

Mr. Rimmer claimed PAF will get J-XX, even before China has made it official or forget even offering it for export to PAF. If you’re so confident that you’ll get the J-XX without any Chinese confirmation, and despite haggling over the price of the J-10, I admire your optimism.

Besides, the plane in question is J-XX. Rimmer says it is J-XXX, which is incorrect.

Firstly, Pakistan has expressed interest in the export variant of J-10, called F-10 (I’m using the Chinese designation only, and NOT the FC-20 designation that was coined by Pakistan for some reason).

A difference of $15 million in the asking price is unprecedented and cannot explain ANY difference in the packages asked. A JF-17 costs $25 million — that too with credit taken from China, so in the long run it will cost upto $27-30 million.

After this, if Pakistan wants to pay only $25 million for a much larger and more advanced J-10 (even if it’s the export variant), it sounds perplexing. Anyway, the details are for you to find out, and do get your own facts right before posting on the JF-17 and J-10.

You’re talking geopolitics above. I’m asking, has there been an unveiling of the J-XX, or even any announcement that China is willing to sell it to PAF ?

Let PAF buy J-XX at any time it wants. All I want is an official confirmation in the light of so many odds, like the massive credit on your JF-17 purchase, the “quarrel” over the price of J-10 and any info on the J-XX, that’s all.

Well, I think I “pinched” a very sensitive and a raw nerve there. If you think SPADA 2000 of 20 km intercept range is a medium-long range missile, all the best to you.

J10A was often said to be superior and mature. Well, it was not matured platform according to people that wanted to buy it as you can read in an ild ACM AFM interview. PAF asked specific changes (like DSI/AESA/IRST etc) and it is probably the reason why it is called FC20. If you take out avionics, optronics, ecm, radar, IFR and some more stuff and add to that your own manpower to build it then I think you could understand 25 million a piece. You do know that e.q. France wants to provide parts unless it is build in Pakistan? Good. Besides that if K8 costs 6,5 million, JF17 around 15-20 million then paying for an empty FC20 40 million would be a bit strange, wouldn’t it? I think PAF knows what it should cost cause it isn’t running after every available plane (like its neighbour does).

About the SPADA. You are a smart guy. Here a link.

http://www.army-technology.com/projects/spada/

You have a border between India and Pakistan of more then a few thousand kilometer. Depth is almost zero when it comes to Pakistan. Let us take the place where the largest part of Pakistani army is based. Lahore (not the french word please). 29 km or 18 miles from the Indian border. The area is pretty much flat compared to the northern border and there are more then a few bases of IAF and PAF. You can Google it. Do you need a SAM that can shoot down planes that are flying 100 km in the Indian airspace (but need time and manpower to react) or do you need modern Crotale where a few seconds and high hit percentage is more important? Surely it would be nice to get planes far inside India but that adds reaction time and ECM/ECCM/etc. Let me copy paste a part:

SPADA 2000

The system provides air defence missile coverage of 2,000km². Target detection and tracking range is up to 60km and the missiles can intercept crossing and approaching targets to a range of 25km. The kill probability is high, even against highly agile crossing targets. The system can engage up to four targets simultaneously with Aspide missiles.

Spada 2000 is modularised and integrated into sheltered units, which provides a high tactical and strategic mobility. The system consists of a detection centre and either two or four firing sections, each section equipped with two missile launchers. Each missile launcher has six ready-to-fire Aspide 2000 missiles.

Aspide 2000’s radar is the Selex Sistemi Integrati (formerly Alenia Marconi Systems) RAC-3D, which gives three-dimensional volumetric air surveillance, detection and tracking. The system has the capacity to track 100 targets simultaneously within a range of 60km.

The radar is capable of operating in hostile electronic warfare environments and is robust against clutter interference and electronic countermeasures. The radar features emission control, jamming location, random frequency agility and coded waveforms. The radar’s erectable antenna is up to 13m in height.

Sounds perfect to me. I think that it is the best option one could make. I think ot pushes the opponent above certain altitude where it can be seen, tracked and countered by PAF. I think you would prefer high altitude SAM and leave the lower altitude unprotected. Good for you. But I think you do miss thinking beyond the one dimensional thinking. Hope you learned something. I think India made a smart move to buy smart weapons cause if they ever want to cross the border they gonna need that desperately.

The above claim is unsubstantiated. There is no news of China selling or even expressing intent for the as yet unnamed 5th gen. fighter jet, the J-XX (and not J-XXX) to Pakistan.

Besides, after already taken credit from China for the first lot of 40 JF-17’s, and the current negotiations going on for J-10, how does Pak expect to purchase additional J-XX ? (assuming China agrees to export it to PAF in the first place).

Somebody on Pak-def claimed that PAF wants to purchase J-10 in $25 million, whereas China is not budging any less than $40 million. How does Pak expect to simply slash 40% of the cost of a frontline fighter jet ? Does it think J-10 is like a JF-17 ?

I see. Back then there was no J10 for decades. Then J10A was better then JF17 and Pakistan would only get inferior J10’s. Now there is a story about them getting FC20 (improved J10 with western parts) that make you think twice. We have several claims about that but you probably need contract copy. Unfortunately you will not get that. About Jx or whatever. Do you think the Pakistani wait for a US degraded plane? I think you should use your own knowledge then asking something that the owner is not even willing to publish. Does China talking openly about it? I doubt that. As Rimmer said often, you do not have a single idea how to extract info from things that are written on the net or by own research.

Just for your imagination before you start typing:
What is included?
When will it be delivered?
What will be done inhouse?
What are the reasonable costs that can be added in the Chinese price?

It is not about one is bigger then the other but more one is not up to the standards of understanding the picture.

India might disturb anything else (cause they feel threatened by everything possible, even if it three decades old) but in this case it is the usual baseless and biassed statements that Chinese parts are not good enough or Chinese will not deliver. How boring.

Let us return to a known plane. BLock52. As ACM said they are nice bonus but PAF is no longer tempted to put its eggs in that basket. So if Block52 (which is seen as a very good plane all over the world) will not be its MRCA then I bet a good/better FC20 will be. And I doubt the Pakistani are wiling to wait for 5 decades old JSF which will be degraded to 4.5 gen cause it might hurt India. I think they are beyond that planning level and that is what you get if you use and abuse a nation several times. The US made the JF17 happen. They made FC20 an intresting case. And I am pretty sure they will force Pakistan to buy Jxx(xxxx). And whether it is inferior or not. We will see cause none of us is able to judge it at this moment.

The Karakorum Highway would be rather easy to interdict. Lots of bridges, lots of tunnels, no cross-country diversions possible . . .

How would you pass he second highest peaks unnoticed to attack an highway? Not just an highway but the world most highes/coldest and between huge mountains. You do not even have a radar coverage of that area. Just remind you of the Indian side talking about punitive actions or even nuclear attack but in the end it was zero action. Same happened in the past when Kargil was a reason to push one million soldiers to the border. Again those big words of giving Pakistan a lesson. It did never happen. The fact is that one cannot threat a nuclear neighbour which shares huge border with just words. Even when it is a lot smaller the result will be just as much when it was a bigger one. I read often that Indian side could easily to this or that (like swerve points out) but it is not even worth to be called daydreaming. Basicly yhe problem is that even in one dimensional setting people take just some variables without facts and start making assumptions that are not correct. I am glad that we can laugh and see it as fiction.

Just to get on reality. Pakistan and China have a pact. Whatever India tries it will mean serious problems for them. I think we should not post oneliners to prove that the world is simple. If the few Indian fighters that passed the line of control were shot down then I bet they control that area very strict. With Saab 2000 up and running there will be even better coverage.