WH904It was written by me – I think I’ve given a fairly honest account of the Starfighter’s history – only one minor mistake I subsequently found! I certainly haven’t portrayed the aircraft as being lethal. That’s an old angle that I never agreed with. As you say, the 104 was no more dangerous than any of its contemporaries. It was only the German experience that gave the aircraft the bad reputation.
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WH904He’s done a great deal – but it’s the future that worries me. He seems keen to ensure the aircraft go to good homes but we know from experience that things never work out as one expects – there must be a risk that aircraft will go overseas or they will go to optimistic owners who can’t keep the aircraft flying. Who knows, it may all work-out well but it is very worrying and incredibly sad. CAF promised to be a great centre of activity and it’s ended very swiftly and it’s already resulted in a very sorry business down at St.Mawgan. I certainly wasn’t expecting such a sad development 🙁
WH904Grim news:( It inevitably means the collection will be broken up – let’s hope the Meteors don’t go overseas like poor Winston did. I guess it explains why the place looks so quiet at present. The Twin Pin is outside with wings off, the Canberra is parked on the grass with just a tarpaulin over the cockpit. What’s betting the Canberra doesn’t get to fly again now?
What a sad business. I think we all had high hopes for CAF and it’s amounted to nothing. I hope the outcome is positive but I doubt if it will be.
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WH904daveg sums it up nicely – rewriting (or ignoring parts of) history is a dangerous game, but in the case of this movie it’s just shabby. True, civilisation wont collapse but it’s part of a trend. If history is continually “adjusted” then it eventually becomes accepted wisdom.
WH904Think it’s been repainted more recently?
WH904Surely the issue of whether some people regard the dog’s name as offensive is irrelevant to the movie? If it is offensive then so be it. It’s still a fact of history, therefore it needs to be portrayed as such. If we embark on the concept of deleting words from movies because they’re deemed to be offensive, the movies will be even more pointless than they already are. Surely, isn’t the fact that the dog’s name would now be unacceptable the very reason why it has to be used?
WH904Indeed, Chris does avoid the subject completely, and he also avoids the “MR.Mk.1A” although he does describe the change of engines to a common standard.
WH904why does everyone ASSUME/GUESS that this film will be total drivel?
Because we know that it will be. Take a look at the cinema listings over the past few years. Garbage sells.
WH904As you say Rich, the archive drawings ought to clarify the matter – if there’s no reference there, then I think it’s safe to assume that the “1A” and “2C” never actually existed 🙂
WH904no point in getting the younger generation interested in such things.
I suppose it depends what you mean by “getting interested” in the Dambusters or anything else. Okay, I would accept that it’s always a good thing if a younger generation learns about a subject about which they were previously ignorant, but in the case of this (or pretty-much any modern movie) I doubt if they will learn anything. I’m pretty sure most of the audience will assume it’s not even a true story, and the rest will eagerly swallow whatever “drama” (garbage) the director feeds them. I don’t think that’s a cynical view – it’s just facing reality. You only have to look at the rubbish that gets churned-out at the cinema to know that the Dambusters movie will be no better than Top Gun or Pearl Harbour. It’s inevitable that the movie will have to be aimed at the general movie audience in order to be a commercial success. That pretty-much guarantees that it will be a triumph of action, drama and excitement, and have little to do with historical fact or accuracy. It’s a shame but I guess it’s inevitable.
WH904look at films like Jurrasic Park, Lord of the Rings or Star Wars, without it they wouldn’t exist
I’d rather not look – and I haven’t. I can spot garbage from a huge distance. Actually to be fair I did try and watch a Star Wars movie but after about thirty minutes I’d lost the will to live.
As has been said previously, the new movie is pretty-much guaranteed to disappoint a lot of us because it will inevitably include CGI that doesn’t convince those of us who know what the real thing looks like. Likewise, it will have a script (ie a story) and this will inevitably be a work of fiction even if it is based on fact. So we can be sure that the result will be an interpretation of a real event that will doubtless entertain movie-going idiots, but disappoint or annoy those of us who want to see an important story properly portrayed.
Much as the idea of a new movie sounded great in principle, I wish they wouldn’t bother. The only way this story could be retold with any skill and accuracy would be by producing a documentary. Trouble is, when one looks at modern documentaries, I think it’s fair to say that even a properly-produced documentary would also suffer for the use of questionable “facts” and unnecessary artificial excitement designed to capture the interest of viewers with short attention spans. I seriously doubt if any production company would or could create a programme that simply told the story of the Dambusters without any nonsense or hype, and one that actually stuck to facts. Sadly, we just don’t have that kind of media.
Like some of the other posters here, I certainly will not be going to the cinema to see the new movie if/when it appears. I will doubtless watch it on TV when it appears a few weeks later, but I’m prepared to squirm at the rubbish that it will inevitably contain. Okay, you could call it cynicism but I prefer to call it honesty. If we look at every other recent movie that has handled either aviation or wartime subjects, we can be certain that the results will be pretty disappointing! 🙂
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WH904but suddenly found itself on the scrapheap with minimal explanation?
A very full explanation is available – suggest you take a look at our Aeroplane Icons publication on the subject 🙂
WH904Think I upset one poster on UKAR – I don’t think I’ve changed my view though as their thread on this subject seems to contain more than a few posts that have lost touch with reality (but then this is common to many threads!). I guess it’s true that talking about retiring XH558 to Bruntingthorpe or Elvington or Coventry is a tad premature when they don’t seem to have even been asked but then that was partly my point. As far as I know, they have never even been asked which makes the “Academy” plan all the more absurd. I would imagine that all three places would gladly welcome XH558 given the opportunity, but it clearly isn’t going to happen. There’s not been so much as one word to suggest that VTTS have considered anything other than their own plan. It’s a tad galling when we’ve been told for so long that it’s the “people’s aeroplane” and yet the “people” don’t seem to be getting consulted in any way. It’s a very sad business.
I went along to see today’s take-off and as usual the airport was virtually dead – it is undeniably under-utilised and like many people I have to wonder what it’s long-term future will hold. In many respects XH558 looks rather like a spirit from the past moving amongst the deserted airfield. I also ventured further north to Elvington to see today’s display – a delight as always but a very restrained and gentle affair compared to the magnificent performance delivered by Kevin Rumens at Fairford.
Still no news of the final flight either. I imagine it’s going to be quite a day and it will be interesting (if not worrying) to see how the event is handled at Finningley. How will the local Police handle what will surely be an astonishing number of spectators? More to the point, does this mean that nobody is actually going to be within a reasonable distance to see/photograph the final historic touch-down? What a waste that will be if such a huge moment in Britain’s aviation history can hardly even be seen 🙁
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WH904Anyone heard from Dick Ward recently? I haven’t heard anything in a long time and I’m wondering if he’s sold off some/all of his photo collection as I’ve seen some of his images on sale on Ebay?
WH904The UKAR thread seems to drift into the realms of fantasy far too many times, so I haven’t read much there that adds much to the situation. I guess that thread does illustrate that there’s no clear view amongst enthusiasts so I think we can be sure that VTTS will simply forge ahead with its plans regardless of whether anyone points-out the absurdity of the whole idea or not. The UKAR thread does raise one interesting point though – what is going to happen when the final flight occurs? If it really is going to become a “must see” event, I do wonder how VTTS, the Airport and the Police will want to handle it. I can imagine that there must be a few people within VTTS who would like to make the final flight a private affair for their preferred friends, although I doubt if even they would have the nerve to try and make the flight without telling the wider public – there would probably be a lynch mob heading to Finningley the next day! I imagine there will be a growing pressure for concrete information on the final flight when we get into next month?
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