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May 29, 2011 at 1:38 am in reply to: T-50 for $25 million, cheap or expensive? #2330543

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I can of course present a set of counter statements, some from the same ACM Naik quoted above but you won’t admit it would you ?

in other words, you have run out of quantitative arguments to make.
thought so. in this world of nationalistic hubris, I will take whatever small nuggets of honesty available, however inadvertently made. 😉

May 29, 2011 at 1:34 am in reply to: SAAB to build Sea Gripen demonstrator? #2330547

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first of all, at no point was the NLCA compared to the sea gripen, at least by me. the point was ENTIRELY about NLCA’s role in the Indian Navy, a point that I believe has some bearing on whether India is interested in the sea gripen or not (as some have claimed).

oh, and a aircraft alraedy rolled out, 40 specimen ordered and expected to fly next month is a wee bit more than ‘notional’ isn’t it ? perhaps if you had bothered to read the thread in stead of glibly assuming that I am at fault, you might have known whose ‘insistence’ this ‘trivial’ exchange is continuing. but then your countryman can’t be at fault can he ?

May 29, 2011 at 12:11 am in reply to: T-50 for $25 million, cheap or expensive? #2330654

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not really hottie, I think you haven’t looked up the performance figures in a long long time. don’t be disheartened, age catches up with everybody. 😀
gripen C and tejas Mk1’s figures are pretty close to each other.
see for yourself. http://www.saabgroup.com/Global/Documents%20and%20Images/Air/Gripen/Gripen%20product%20sheet/Gripen_Dimensions.pdf
keep in mind that the ‘total load capacity’ includes things like gun ammo and some internal fuel (which in LCA’s case in included in loaded weight), otherwise the T/O weight will exceed gripen’s max T/O weight.

saab, ever the master of marketing, carefully mentions only ‘load capacity’, it does not mention whether that load is external or internal.
you don’t really think that 2 fighters of almost identical weight, fuel capacity and engine power (same family of engines in fact) would have a massive disparity in range, do you ?

May 28, 2011 at 2:48 pm in reply to: SAAB to build Sea Gripen demonstrator? #2330961

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If LCA were as capable as Mig-29, then Mig-29 would never have been ordered by the IN. Anyway I propose that we move all discussion of LCA and its derivatives to a different thread to keep this one on topic, so if you want to discuss it further then we can do so there 😎

when the fact of the matter is the mig-29k was contracted for BEFORE the NLCA was even thought of. even YOU can perhaps understand what that means ?
or is it that you consider a parade of your comprehension dificulties as rather ‘cool’ ?

May 28, 2011 at 2:39 pm in reply to: Indian AF News and Discussion Part 16. #2330963

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^^^ well, IA does not operate the medium weight choppers like Mi-17, so that has its own problems. there is a case for creating a central air wing under the home ministry that caters to the needs of all the central police/para-mil organisations, BSF, CRPF, NSG etc. too often genuine needs by these forces, esp CRPF goes unfulfilled because of non-availability of IAF and IA choppers.

May 28, 2011 at 9:22 am in reply to: Indian AF News and Discussion Part 16. #2331195

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while the ever complaining army is over the moon about the dhruv and uses it from flood relief to SAR in the himalayas.
but then BSF has effed up every single aircraft it has operated, including the highly rugged mi-17, so this is not surprising.

here is a nice look at dhruvs and other helicopters of the army aviation corps.

Mod Edit: No embedded video, please!

May 28, 2011 at 9:19 am in reply to: T-50 for $25 million, cheap or expensive? #2331196

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Not wing loading but the claim that Tejas is a better aerodynamic design. Ah can’t wait for the MK1 and MK2 to enter service, didn’t they confirm that the MK1 will be an 8G fighter compared to the Gripen which is a 9G fighter ?

it’s a real pity that in spite of the efforts of numerous members for over a year, you still can’t grasp concepts like opening up of flight envelope, testing of FCS and so on.

May 28, 2011 at 5:50 am in reply to: T-50 for $25 million, cheap or expensive? #2331217

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which part dear ? why don’t you post the wing loading for our benefit ?

the laws of physics cares little for the fact that you have low opinion of India and Indians, perhaps from a deep seated inferiority complex ?

May 28, 2011 at 4:01 am in reply to: T-50 for $25 million, cheap or expensive? #2331305

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blitzo, tech wise tejas Mk1 itself is very much comparable to gripen A/B/C/D. in terms of EW it will in fact be a notch above. aerodynamics wise tejas is a more promising design, on account of its unbeleivably low wing loading.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HAL_Tejas#Specifications_.28HAL_Tejas.29
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JAS_39_Gripen#Specifications_.28JAS_39_Gripen_C.2FD.29

Fair enough, but I also think JF-17, Tejas, FA-50 probably won’t be competing into larger competitions like the MRCA or Brazil’s FX-2, very soon (and not because of political reasons etc).

agreed but the reason for that as far as tejas is concerned is time of availibility. the program started a full decade after the others. had it been 2015, MRCA competition would have been canceled in favour of tejas Mk2.
I am not that sure of international orders because HAL is swamped with orders from IAF and IN, it will have to take care of those before looking outside.

May 28, 2011 at 2:32 am in reply to: T-50 for $25 million, cheap or expensive? #2331317

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just what I said. 😉 it’s sad really that emoticons are all you have to offer on the topic.

May 28, 2011 at 1:42 am in reply to: T-50 for $25 million, cheap or expensive? #2331412

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aren’t they ?

May 28, 2011 at 1:21 am in reply to: SAAB to build Sea Gripen demonstrator? #2331423

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Don’t try to put words in my mouth boy.

I don’t need to kiddo, you did it yourself. (here it is: http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showpost.php?p=1750718&postcount=53 you posted the weights of LCA and Mig-29k and claimed that proved NLCA is a LIFT 2nd line fighter. meh ! 😀 )of course by now it is clear you do not understand how logic works, so I will forgive you this one time.

The F16 is a medium fighter, Tejas is not. My point clearly stands.

your point was ‘tejas is a LIFT 2nd line fighter’ NOT whether it was medium category or not. the SHAR has an even lower T/O weight than tejas, by your fantastic logic it is a “LIFT second line fighter” eh einstein ? :rolleyes:

I presented proof, but unfortunately you just aren’t willing to admit that your original proposition about me was wrong, which speaks volumes about you. I’ve presented facts, you’ve presented nothing except abuse about me, which I think draws this element of the debate to a close, as I’m not going to waste anymore my time with your personal attacks.

of course I wasn’t willing to admit when you posted ‘proof’ of some completely unrelated point. that’s how real life works. when you want to prove point A your provide proof for point A, not unrelated point D. may be that works in kindergarten but not here.

I am still waiting for ‘proof’ that NLCA is a ‘LIFT 2nd line fighter for Indian Navy’. that it is a light fighter, or that the F-16 is a medium fighter, or that the earth is round and a million other similar irrelevant points DOES NOT constitute proof. clear ? or do I need to type that out slowly ?

May 27, 2011 at 10:12 am in reply to: SAAB to build Sea Gripen demonstrator? #2332537

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Sure, here’s the proof. If the LCA were as capable as the Mig-29, then only the LCA would have been procured. That was not the case however, both were procured, so clearly Mig-29 is more capable than LCA. As I was saying, second line aircraft 😎

MTOW
Mig-29: 24,500 kg
Tejas: 13,300 kg

Speed
Mig-29: 2M
Tejas: 1.8M

Thrust to Weight Ratio
Mig-29: 0.97
Tejas: 0.91

Loaded Weight
Mig-29: 18,550 kg
Tejas: 10,500 kg

sheer genius ! is this what passes for proof in ppp-land ? :dev2:

the NLCA is ordered after mig-29k, surely, by your unique logic that is proof that mig-29k is not good enough otherwise only mig-29k would have been procured ?

all you have done is point out that one is a light fighter and the other is a medium fighter, which everyone and their dog knew already (with the notable exception of you, I presume). that doesn’t make one a main fighter and the other a ‘LIFT second line aircraft’ :rolleyes: is the F-16 a LIFT second line fighter in USAF because it is smaller than the F-15 ? or is it a frontline fighter that occupies a separate niche from that of the F-15 ?

in conclusion, you were once again caught making half-baked comments without proof. some people just never learn.

May 27, 2011 at 12:14 am in reply to: T-50 for $25 million, cheap or expensive? #2332891

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hottie, not exactly an apples to apples comparison. firstly KAI was already license producing the KF-16 and LM did much of the heavy lifting for goldie, ergo the situation was akin to developing a dumbed down version of what you already produced with considerable OEM help.
(in LCA’s case US actually held back codes developed by Indian scientists that were being tested in US in addition to attempts at political sabotage)

May 26, 2011 at 11:34 pm in reply to: T-50 for $25 million, cheap or expensive? #2332906

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with a new radome and the lot of tests the cost will touch 40 mil for F/A-50 IMO. korean wages aren’t exactly cheap in dollar terms.
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