I wouldn’t mind the F-35 as a plain friendly FMS deal, no political allusions involved. Just a capability addition with just the added benefit of improving strategic relations with the US and other JSF partners.

Witcha, treaties like MTCR are so full of loopholes and I am sure they will say the KEPD 350s range is less than 300 km in actual combat or something like that.

Do you for example believe that the Brahmos is limited to exactly 290 Km. nope.

There is no such thing as MTCR regulations, MTCR is an informal agreement not to share cruise missile technology to non-signatories.

As India already masters cruise missile technologies (as demonstrated by the Brahmos), MTCR is kinda moot.

The problem is very often the MTCR is treated like a law and used as an excuse to restrict export of missile technology. In this manner it has been applied to India many times in the past. Most recently when it was announced that the Nerpa SSN would be transferred to India with only 300km Klub LACMs instead of the 3000km Granat LACM.

And yes, I do believe the BrahMos is limited to 290km. It has been stated as such by both Indian and Russian sources with the explanation that they didn’t want to violate MTCR norms. This is confirmed by the fact that the Yakhont is slightly heavier with a smaller warhead, which was made heavier for the BrahMos.

TOT – don’t make me laugh. The Brits had an admiral stand up in the USA Congress and threaten to pull out of F-35 because of US refusal to co-operate on TOT. And Britain is the only Tier 1 partner, building more or less the rear half of the aircraft, so what hope would India have of getting TOT?

By the way, I believe that Italy is to be the second F-35 line, not the UK.

Didn’t the UK eventually get what they wanted(besides, of course, the source codes that have been denied to everyone)?

With close to 200 potential orders(the largest outside of the US itself) plus more from the Indian Navy I daresay they’d be willing to accommodate an Indian assembly line.

I’m not worried about a few cracks. They just signify structural flaws that can(and perhaps have already been) be rectified. The initial MiG-29K prototypes developed cracks early in testing from the stress of arrested landings. The Russians just welded them and continued testing.;)

I don’t understand why they even try – with MMRCA selection soon to be announced, FGFA already selected, AMCA. F-35 brings no local assembly or TOT and nobody knows what it will cost.

Actually, local assemby and some TOT has been granted to some of the partners(like the UK). Basically the more funding and orders you contribute to the project, the more you get. India stood to get a fair bit bit had it committed to the programme.

Some have argued that the MMRCA circus was pointless when we can just buy a fifth-generation medium fighter that will join us in nearly the same timeframe.

Well, if AMCA gets delayed some 10-15 years down the line we may see an F-MRCA between the F-35, the Silent Eagle and whatever South Korea manages to put on the table.:D

i agree with you. I was referring to the UK STOVL requirement being dropped:)

Ah well. It may still get an order from India somewhere down the line. Or maybe Spain and Italy with their STOVL carriers…

I wonder how much funding India has sunk into the program thus far, given their representatives regularly observe the T-50 tests.

I believe the change in PAK-FA/FGFA numbers has been known here for a while, but reading about it here is somewhat depressing.

http://idrw.org/?p=5289

When India had officially joined Russia in development of Pak-Fa , most of the design and scientific and engineering work on the aircraft had already been completed by the Russian side and not much development work was left for Indian partner HAL .

…

Initially plans were to acquire 50 Russian version Pak-Fa single seater variant and later develop Indian FGFA variant with twin seater ,which could be around 200 in numbers , but recently Indian air force put the figures of 5th generation fighter which it wants to induct has 166 PAK FA and 48 FGFA.

…

FGFA will have Indian software and also European avionics and systems, along with Indian developed one.

So ultimately it won’t be much of a ‘joint development’ at all.:mad: For the most part the IAF will be buying the wholly Russian PAK-FA off the shelf with minor(if any) changes in avionics, and the FGFA version created with Indian participation will be in the minority(and in any case, more like a T-50MKI with mainly third-party European-sourced modifications rather than a truly ‘Indian’ contribution).

It increasingly appears that rather than a development partner India is ultimately just a financier and customer for the PAK-FA with little significant design or development input. Far from a Eurofighter-style collaborative effort.:(

If not for the TOT offered here I’d have viewed the American offer of the F-35 to India just as favorably as this. At this rate I can’t really see how HAL will ever gain the capability to independently develop an indigenous front-line fighter.:(

Does the PAK-FA have a Western-style ‘side stick’ cockpit layout or is it the same as other Russian fighters?