WitchaWhat do you thing will change witcha?
Thanks
For one, the wings would be more like the Raptor’s than the Flanker-type conventional ones seen here, if the design CGIs were any indication.
WitchaActually till the new Augusta Westlands arrive the President travels on an old Mi 8/17. Which really looks pathetic to be the transport of the head of state.
Making extensive upgrades to really old airframes do not make much sense. Its not done anywhere in the world.
You may be watching too many movies like Rang De Basanti.
So now you’ve moved from polite arguments to condescension?
Au contraire some of the life extension/upgrade packages for Western aircraft like the Harriers, teen series and various transport aircraft are quite extensive and go to the extent of replacing even parts of the airframe and wings, aside from the engines. Even the MiG-29SMT upgrade involves replacing the wings.
And somehow the pride of our VIP travel is more urgent than the danger to our pilots? Maybe the VIPs feel that way but it isn’t and never will be.
WitchaWhy are we talking about cost-benefit analysis when the key matter is that those planes have UNSAFE engines? Just because budgetary constraints say it’s ‘unfeasible’ to replace them doesn’t make the resultant loss of life acceptable. Would the IAF and the MoD come to the same conclusion when their VIP transport jets grow old and new engines and upgrades are considered ‘unfeasible’? No, I didn’t think so, either.
WitchaI’m pretty sure the final PAK-FA will look quite different from the T-50 in that picture.
WitchaThe thing is Pakistani nuclear and missile programs are driven by the military which is fully committed to developing the best possible deterrent. On the other hand the Indian programmes are controlled by a civilian government which has historically always been half-hearted about our nuclear weapons programmes. Agni-3 slowed down, ICMB plans cancelled, I wouldn’t be surprised if the production of new warheads was also slowed down.
WitchaThe Russian Navy will be purchasing upgraded Mig-29K ( 35 standard ) and Mig-35 has been included in 2010 procurement program talks are presently on to look into numbers reportedly between 30 – 50 Mig-35 will be purchased.
I can’t see that many being inducted when the RuAF already has hundreds of Fulcrums and Flankers that can simply be upgraded for a lower price. Not when it has to juggle funds even for more urgent acquisitions like the Su-34.
WitchaArey, you must bother to keep yourself informed on latest events. Mk.1 has already extensively tested munitions. You can read this and also and this. You think Tejas is like that JF-17, which is inducted into squadrons, without even full PGM tests and without its sole BVR missile tests ? Tejas’ IoC is just 6 months away and a stringent IAF can’t induct it just like that.
Thanks. But neither of those sources mentions PGMs, could you give please me a more specific reference? They could very well have been testing basic unguided rockets and bombs.
And you surely have been fed on a diet of newspaper propaganda on Tejas for years, and have not bothered to read up on an unbiased history. The IAF has been very negligent of the Tejas and irresponsible. Had it co-operated with ADA, a squadron would’ve been in service by now. Since already discussed before, no need to repeat again.
The IAF has been cooperating with the program for a long time, there are many IAF personnel working with NAL/HAL/ADA and other agencies. If you’re faulting them for not compromising on their requirements, I have to take their side. If we’re introducing a 4-th generation fighter in this day and age, it has to be able to compete with the latest standards. Just like the J-10A, if the IAF doesn’t think it’s enough for their needs, bring on the Mk.2!
Incorrect. The 126 Mirage-2000-V were proposed 10 years ago soon after the Kargil war. For 5 years upto 2005, the government and IAF slept soundly, by which time Dassault closed down its Mirage line not anticipating further orders.
The IAF doesn’t really have the power to award contracts. Neither government wanted a single-vendor solution, so the MoD hesitated, hesitated and finally asked the IAF to specify requirements for an open tender instead, into which every willing competitor was invited irrespective of the ‘medium’ weight class.
WitchaWhat is the point in upgrading the obsolete fighters ? The 21s are near the end of their life and the Swing Wing 27s are kept in service till replacements arrive. Both are really outdated and I see no point in spending huge chunks of money upgrading them.
And if that money saves dozens of pilot lives then? As old as those A/C are thanks to incessant delays in new fighter orders they’ll remain in service for at least a decade longer(In fact the BISONs with their old R25 engines are intended to remain in service till 2025). I think that’s long enough to matter.
Witchaall those are IAF decisions, not GOI ones.
penny-pinched on re-engining the MiG-27’s
not much life left and the cost of re-engining is not justified by the time it would be in service. would be easily replaced by LCA Mk1 in same role.
Their airframe life may be over but if they are going to be kept in service till 2017 that alone merited a new engine. I’m referring to the proposal given a few years ago, when there was still a decade of service life intended.
And do you think the IAF has any real power in moving deals through the bureaucracy? At any stage(MoD, CCS, MoF) the babus and netas can cancel a tender at a whim or let it sit indefinitely.
how many bis airframes were available in the first place ? the decision was taken after structural testing of the bis. IAF did have the option for a further 50 bisons which it did not exercise.
At the time they still had hundreds(over 60% of the fighter inventory I believe), and even today there are at least 200 planes in the inventory. The majority of the MiG-21bis fleet remained without upgrades.
a panic buy in response to the F-16 whose service record in IAF can at best be termed atrocious. IAF is very happy to let it go.
Can’t see it being any worse than the 21s.
RD-33 isn’t that reliable to start with.
Compared to the old R-25(the most common cause of crashes) it is. It is.
WitchaThe way the MiG upgrade programmes have been handled by successive governments is downright criminal. They penny-pinched on re-engining the MiG-27’s, limited the BISON upgrade to just 125 MiG-21s, ignored the 23s altogether…
If they had any sense the MiG-21s should at least had their engines replaced with a more reliable model, like the RD-33 tested for the proposed MiG-21-97 upgrade.
WitchaIndian Navy to get new helicopters
Finally! Hopefully the tender for new ASW helos to replace the Sea Kings and Ka-28s will also resurface soon.
One thing I’m apprehensive about is that tenders have been issued to each and every helicopter manufacturer, without considering the viability of their product range, simply for the sake of competition. For instance Kamov should not have been included since their only operational naval helicopters are Ka-27 variants all of which fall under the ‘medium’ weight class.
WitchaAny news on the Russian Navy’s acquisition of MiG-29K? Has the deal officially been signed yet?
If so, how will it be modified for the Russian Navy? The Indian MiG-29Ks had many Indian and Western-sourced avionics systems; how will these be substituted for the Russian version?
WitchaWell, either way it is our netas and babus that are to blame for this mess. I feel a little sorry for the American and Swedish teams who had little chance to win this bid from the start but were invited along anyway for the sake of competition. They lost a fair bit of money and lobbying power for future deals while we lost a lot of time due to additional testing required. Lose-lose situation…
WitchaNot sure what IAF has in mind for this very flaw and unfair comparision of aircraft. On the one end they have F-16 , Mig-35 and Gripen either single engine or upgrade to older design on the other they have the very modern and twin engine design from European and US stable.
Does it surprises any body if Times Now report is true that Rafale and Eurofighter performed well and IAF has given its preference between the two ?
The IAF is probably wasting the time of Lockheed,Mig and Saab if its desire is to buy top performance fighter then to go for a good deal , if its wanting for a good deal then Eurofighter or Rafale cant beat Mig , Gripen or Lockheed in price bracket.
There is the omni present L1 tender so IAF preference for some fighter may not necessarily be the L1 as decided by MOD when bids open up and the political pressure which is better not mentioned.
Austin, this whole MRCA thing has mostly been a waste of time and money. If you’ve followed the history of this deal(and I believe you have) the IAF originally just wanted a quick purchase of 120 Mirage-2000-5s back in 2005. The MoD under Antony found this single-vendor preference unacceptable when so many other fighters were available and instead issued an open tender to every major fighter manufacturer for the sake of a ‘competitve’ deal. Thus began the MMRCA.
Similarly the artillery tender fiasco originally started with single-vendor deals for buying G6 and Atmos howitzers. Basically Antony’s MoD has been against single-vendor deals without competitive bidding as they invite allegations of bribery and favouritism. The only exception is ‘repeat’ buys like the Talwar frigates and Su-30MKIs since these can be seen as an extention of deals signed by the old NDA government.
WitchaIf the ‘leaks’ are true and not more glorified media speculation the MiG-35 likely has no future. There are still potential buyers(Venezuela, Iran etc.) but these are more likely to go for older variants like the MiG-29SMT and MiG-29M. That said RSK-MiG still has enough buisness to keep the MiG-29 lines open. For instance they have orders for over 50 more MiG-29Ks upto 2018.
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