RAF have named the pilot killed as Flt Lt Alex Parr. RIP

http://www.raf.mod.uk/news/archive/raf-pays-tribute-to-pilot-killed-in-civilian-air-accident-11072016

BBC website now carrying report

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-27662280

MoD Actions

…. Hopefully if his remains can be found, that they too will be recovered, but I do not see both items dependant on each other, beyond providing the impetus and location to start such a search, once “one” is located, it need not wait for the “other” to be located/recovered first?
…
There would be many other MIA UK servicemen in the same sandpit, and many other locations around the world, and MOD/Veterans-UK would appear to be a far more appropriate resourced entity and process to investigate and pursue them, than to delegate to a technology museum and its team of airframe dismantlers?

Regards

Mark Pilkington

Mark An excellent post. Unfortunately with regards to the quoted text above, there is little possibility of the UK Govt being proactive, as a read of earlier posts on this thread and a response given by a Defence Minister to a recent written question in the House of Commons, reproduced below, in respect of searching for or recovering WW1 remains, confirms. No reason to suggest they will treat WW2 cases any different.

From HANSARD -25 Nov 2013 : Column 40W

World War I
Dr Offord: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence what plans his Department has to provide financial assistance in order to locate and identify the bodies of missing soldiers from the First World War in France. [176110]

Anna Soubry: ( = Minister Defence Personnel, Veterans and Welfare) The UK Government discourages the disturbance of battlefields where human remains may be present and do not authorise speculative searches of such sites. However, when bodies of missing service personnel from the First World War are discovered, the Joint Casualty and Compassionate Centre (JCCC) will try to identify the body and contact the next of kin. The JCCC will then organise at public expense an appropriate burial in the nearest Commonwealth War Graves Commission cemetery in the country in which the remains are found. If they are unable to identify the remains, they will be buried as “Known unto God”.

I would like to think that the intentions of the JCCC are of the very best, but that it is simply the case they are overwhelmed by cases, have no budget, no staff and no remit (or ability) from HMG to be pro-active.

Although it is a long time ago (1970s) I still get very angry when I recall a post-military funeral puce faced rant by a senior MOD officer who, in defending the MOD’s position, proclaimed “Have you any idea how much military funerals like these cost?!”

There was a momentary (very) stunned silence, and I noticed a nearby RAF Officer blanche. For one glorious moment I actually thought he was about to draw his sword!

I kid you not. A witness to this outburst was Steve Vizard of Airframe Assemblies who stood alongside me. And that comment isn’t taken out of context.

A country that continues to turn a blind eye and actively support, for instance, the continued commemoration of convicted and executed murderers on a CWGC monument has morally lost its way in relation to its historic war dead. And in that context I mean the establishment. Not the people.

I agree with what Andy say’s and respect and appreciate the work done by the small team at the JCCC. I wish we as a country did more, but the fact is the British Government will no longer actively look for its fallen and does not appear willing to fund or support efforts to recover airmen by private individuals. They only get involved once a discovery has been made and handed over to the local authorities in country. In the current climate with cuts in funding and resources in the public sector & to the armed forces I do not see this changing.

Next Of Kin

Hi All,
I have spoken to Dennis Coppings’ family again this evening who have confirmed that they have not been contacted by the MOD, either for an update or a long overdue apology, since they were informed that the remains discovered by the Italians were ‘categorically not those of Dennis Copping”. So despite the protestations of the MP’s who have taken this to the Defense ministry, no one from the MOD has maintained contact with the family. For the absence of any doubt John Pryor-Bennett is registered as Dennis Coppings’ next of kin so he should be the point of contact for the MOD’s Joint Casualty and compassionate Centre, JCCC. Please anyone who has had the courtesy of a reply from their MP (I certainly have not! Shame on Chris Skidmore Con!) contact them and relay this information so that they might ask for an explanation.
Whilst it is good news that there now seems to be some forward momentum at least in terms of communication between the Defense attache and the Italians why oh why have the MOD not had the good grace to at least apologise to the family for feeding them completely erroneous information and update them on the current activity with regards to the search and identification of Dennis?

Do the MoD regard John as the NOK? Or is there another close family member they could be in contact with?

NOK usually determined in the order: spouse, issue, parents, siblings….

Repatriation Policy

I understand the foreign burial policy during the war, but I’m very surprised it was continued into the 50s.

The UK policy didn’t change until the 60’s (1967 for deaths outside Europe)and in practice it was only after the Falklands that repatriations were carried out in large numbers

Cranwell or Innsworth?

Seemingly, you know have to apply to RAF Cranwell. There is a form that you can download however, reading down the form, you send it completed to RAF Innsworth…a bureaucratic body swerve.
To be fair, your money, now £30, does not go to the RAF, they don’t charge anything in my experience. It goes to the agency at RAF Innsworth which, like all agencies, is orientated to releiving you of your dosh. NOK should get the record free but this does not always happen according to some. What you get for you £30 is a double sided piece of A3 paper. Not trifling for what you get but it depends on how much you want it. .

I think this is just a case of MoD / RAF not updating their records / forms. The RAF Disclosures office, part of the RAF PMA, was at Innsworth until Jan 08 but has now moved to RAF Cranwell.

They are nothing to do with the Agency (SPVA = Medal Office & JCCC) which is still based at Innsworth, nor does the SPVA receive the money – not sure where that goes – The Treasury?

To Get Back on Topic

Hi Me-109E,welcome to the forum. IMO sites should not be disturbed and wreckage should be left in-situ unless there is a very good reason for a recovery to take place and if a recovery does take place it should be done properly,eg treated like any other important archaeological site.

There are many “experts” out there who will claim they know better due to their years of experience digging sites and hording wreckage but when asked for specifics of what they removed from which sites they usually can’t or won’t say,yet they expect to be taken seriously!

Garry.

I agree. IMHO wreck sites should be left undisturbed unless there are overriding reasons to do otherwise, such as health and safety concerns, or if the site is of major historical interest and likely to be disturbed by other actions (road building / construction). Many sites are in effect war graves and every reasonable attempt would have been made to recover the crew at the time, why disturb them now? Too many (Not all) so called experts appear just to be after artifacts to sell on eBay or there own collections.