It would make no sense for Greece to even consider moving S-300’s to Rhodes, or trying to install anything with greater range on the island. Strategically, Crete is the most important asset to Greece as a stepping stone of sorts to Cyprus. Its distance from Turkey, the “traditional adversary”, gives it two or three minutes breathing space in the event of aerial attack with standoff weapons.

The S-300PMU-1’s based in Crete were selected by Cyprus for the 150km operational range, though they can exceed 175km in base-bleed range if you get them 1000 feet or more above sea-level with the radar apparatus. The Patriots operated by Greece use two missiles, the 45km range PAC-3 for defending against projectiles, and the 150km GEM for attacking aircraft. One unfortunate outcome was that the S-300’s and Patriots could not be fitted with a direct data-link due to US opposition, so Greece will have to come up with a proxy datalink system involving man-in-the-loop.

You must realise that air-defence MEZ’s are by no means absolute in their capability. If a missile has a 150km range, that means that if it is fired at an aircraft 150km away, all the aircraft has to do is turn around and flee a few kilometers and the missile will run out of fuel. Additionally, the closer a target is to the radar when a SAM is fired, the greater liklihood of a successful hit due to the extra nanosceonds of computation processing of radar information being fed to the missile before it goes terminal.

Yes, the S-300PMU1 is decent, though the S-300PMU2 is much better and the S-400 is way better. Well they could move it to Rhodes but if they get something like S-400, it doesnt matter at all what really Turkey says where Greece places those because even if they are put on Crete, they will STILL cover a large area of Turkish airspace. Hell even Karpathos(that island between Crete and Rhodes) would be a very good option and it would not be in range of Turkish Artillery. BTW can Turkish artillery attack every part of Rhodes? I highly doubt it.

BUT I agree the 400km is the maximum range, and the SAM will never be fired at this range, however something like 350 kms is pretty likely, and I think judging on how fast the missile is, they will have a tough time running away. But when the TuAF must give support to TuN which will be operating in that area, they will be forced to support them and running away will not be an option. It would leave TuN exposed to HAF and HN.

Also the radars could be set up high on the islands, or they could get some feed via surface ships and such. It’s all netcentric.

Chances of neutralizing these SAMs will be pretty low, considering they would be protected also by other SAMs like TORM1 and PAC-3 for Anti-Missile defence.

I guess thats an option, but same with the Republic of Serbs side, which can easily acquire some second hand Mig-21s and upgrade them to -93, however they could’ve done that LONG time ago, they did not because they could not afford a decent AA capability so they stuck with domestic Oraos. Super Galebs could be upgraded in Russia with Kopyo radar, R-77 and many other munitions to make Super Galebs light fighters, trainers and strikers for a very cheap ammount.

Politically, if something like S-400 or S-300 located in Rhodos, Turkey will consider them offensive systems, and will consider any Greek deployment of such system hostile…

True, kinda like the S-300 Cyprus issue

Why do you think TuAF will have to use HARM if Greeks put their S-400 or S-300 systems 20km from Turkish coast lines? “Militarly” such deployment of an “expensive system” close to Turkish artillery range does not make sense to me. Long range air defense systems must stay behind lines and safe from easy reach of your possible enemy…Greeks are smart enough to not put their expensive systems close to Turkey…Turkey does not even need to fire HARMs if S-400 deployed to Rhodos…A location known system can be engaged by long range artillery guns and missiles…

Is that how close Rhodes is to Turkish coastline?

You are also over estimating S-300/400 capabilities. They will not move around in 5 minutes…How many trucks, radars, launchers must be moved? At the same time, you have said S-400 can engage from 400km, right? Are you talking about radar range or missile engagement range? Did you consider that earth is not flat and there are some many strings attached to possible 400km engagement range? It is very easy to put a ruler on a map and determine its range, in reality, it is different…

missile engagement range, yes I did consider that earth is not flat, but I am sure Greece can and will place some other radars and such on the other islands.

But even IF Rhodes is too close to Turkish artillery, it can still be put on somewhere like Crete and STILL provide air defense a distance of 3/4s between Crete and Cyprus, not to mention a sizable chunk of Turkish airspace too. Besides there are other islands that Turkey won’t be able to reach with artillery like the one between Crete and Rhodes.

As for S-400 redeploying and such, there are quite a few launchers, like 2 radars, a single command post in a battery, there are all quickly undeployable, it’s the radars that would be constantly deploying and undeploying. A single S-300PMU2 can engage up to some I think 48 targets simoultaneously, and a S-400 should be able to do even more.

Like I said, in Allied Force, NATO which compromised of MANY aircraft had a tough time against 1960s Russian SAMs, how do you think the Turkish AF, which is much less capable will do against SAMs that are 2 generations ahead?

No, PLANAF has. It has already entered service. It is tasked primarily for Anti-Shipping with teh YJ-83 AshM which has a range of anywhere between 16-255kms and it can carry 4 of them, it is a subsonic sea skimmer. It will complement Su-30MKK1/2/3s which will carry Kh-31As and Kh-59MKs(285km range, subsonic sea skimmer, Flanker can carry up to 5 of them.)

I understand the fun to spend Greece money for own ideas. Ever thought about, why NATO members are not interested to develop something like S-400 really. They are not all idiots, there have to be good reasons for that.

Thats because they don’t have large aerial threats, Cyprus, Vietnam and other countries did buy S-300s because they face AFs with lots of aircraft. BTW the European countries are developing longer ranged SAMs and such, they focus little more on Anti-Ballistic missile defences

Greece has recently completed delivery of PAC-3’s and Tor-M1’s, and is in the process of receving it’s HUMMER mounted ASRAD systems. This as well as the already upgraded HAWK missiles.

The PAC-3 is more of a Anti-Missile SAM like the S-300VM, the S-400 is more of a Anti-Aircraft Defence. PAC-3’s max range against aircraft is like 150kms, while for S-400 is 400kms. BIIIIIIIIIIIIIG GAP. BUT yes, something like those Tor M1s, HUMMER/ASRADs and Hawks could very well cover the gap that the shield may create.

Yes the EPA has a longstanding requirement for tankers. However the ‘humped’ BLK52+’s are based on Crete with units detached to Kastelli on eastern Crete. So the situation for longer range ops over and near Cyprus is somewhat better.

Yes but concentrating all of the M2Ks and F-16s onto Crete could be problematic, and yes that airfield will be very overcrowded if you plan to put all of them onto a single airfield to fly from to Cyprus.

As for Tankers, what possible tankers could HAF buy? There are Russian IL-76 and in teh future Tu-330TZ, then there is the European Airbus Tanker, American KC-130J, KC-135 and such. I think KC-130J would be the best option since they already operate the C-130, so no need for a whole new infrastructure.

BTW Turkey has some 200+ F-16s and who knows how many F-4s that will be upgraded in Israel, all BVR ARH supported by E-3Cs, and they will fly over Cyprus and the Aegean and Mediterreanean. How many F-16s and M2Ks does Greece have in total?

I think tankers and SAMs are the best option. KC-130Js and 3-4 S-400 batteries.

BTW how far away is Cyprus away from lets say Crete?

Is this for the Republika Srpska or Federation of BiH? I assume you mean the Muslim(FBiH) side! Considering this, Serbs and Muslims are not going to agree on **** if you want to build a joint AF. The Muslims will turn to UAE, Saudi Arabia, Iran, and possibly the West for aircraft(which I highly doubt will give them anything), while the Serbs will turn to China, Serbia, Russia and probably India and Israel for aircraft.

On the Muslim side, if they had money, they would probably go shopping probably in the West but it’s highly doubtful they will get anything from them, only US would be willing to supply possibly some free F-16s. As for Serb side, they already have an AF of J-22s, G-4s and such. They may go along the same lines as Cyprus, possibly acquiring SAMs and Attack Helicopters or even some fixed wing aircraft like Yak-130s/Su-39s and such, considering they’d be suitable enough to replace both Oraos and Galebs.