I think its about time that the government (the EU if necessary) said that it is socially and environmentally unacceptable for prices like those quoted – £8 trans-Atlantic – to be offered by airlines. There is no way Ryanair or anyone else can move someone from Europe to the USA for £8, either in terms of the fuel (and other resources) consumed or in terms of the environmental damage caused by such transportation. Don’t get me wrong – I have no problem with growth in air travel if the growth is funded by passengers paying both an economically and environmentally viable fare, and I have an intense dislike for government imposed fees and taxes. I also understand the concept of a “loss-leader” (which undoubtedly an £8 fare to the USA would be), but its about time for fares such as this (and others, including intra-EU), which merely encourage unnecessary transport at the expense of others, of the environment, and on the infrastructure they consume, to be reigned in or even stopped for the good of everyone except the few who travel at such fares.

Andy

… how does £0.00 sound?

I’ve just got an email from RYR informing me that they are giving away flight free of charge.

‘This is one of our best ever flight offers…’here.

Wouldn’t fly RYR if THEY paid ME! 😡 “Best” is a relative term :rolleyes:

A

FinnAir question…think I am off to Japan next year and they have a great deal on at £399, LHR to Helsinki to Osaka (KIX). I see they have some MD-11’s in their fleet – are these used on routes to the Far East? I’d rather avoid McDonnell Douglas wherever possible.

Finnair are gradually retiring MD-11s in favour of A340-300s – not sure what the status of that program will be next year (it may depend on when you go next year!) but as of now Osaka should be a MD. If I remember correctly the Finnair MDs have a rather vicious 10-abreast config in the rear-most economy cabin with some rows nearer the front in 9-abreast. I believe the cheap tickets get the narrow seats!

Andy

More likely IMHO, the real reason(s) for them doing this are:

1. Ryanair isn’t always the cheapest. If Ryanair are listed on flight comparison sites against other airlines which are sometimes cheaper, punters may actually start to realise that Ryanair always being cheap is sometimes more hot air than truth

2. If punters buy flights on Ryanair’s site, they may buy hotels, insurance, car rental etc on Ryanair’s site – and Ryanair openly admits that ancilliary revenue is important to them. If punters buy Ryanair flights from other sites, they probably won’t buy ancilliary stuff through Ryanair’s site either

So what Ryanair is doing seems to me to come more closely to a restriction in trade than anything to do with the other “excuses” being trotted out – typical Ryanair, in other words.

A

Not bad Richard, not bad at all… One day, I’ll be there again!!!

Andy 😉

Nobody forces anyone to work in the industry. There is stress involved in every job or should be. Why should aviation be any different? Time moves on and things change.

Oh get real! How many people can change careers just like that? We get this same old clap-trap from time to time – “if you don’t like it find another job”. The real world isn’t like that – people have skills and experience and moving to another industry, especially in times of economic difficulties, isn’t easy.

Once again this goes back to only certain sections of society would be able to travel by plane.

Only certain sections of society can do a load of things – some folks can’t afford to buy their own home, or their own car, or go to the cinema regularly. Get used to it. Its no one’s right to travel by air, but the cost of travelling by air needs to reflect the true cost of doing so, and also needs to pay those who work in the industry a realistic wage (which is happening less and less now that the low-fare brigade is established).

For someone to hide behind this argument to list private flying as a hobby it’s extremely hypocritical.

Not at all – see above. I freely admit that I own a part share in an light aeroplane. It is my perogative to do so as, at this time, I feel I can afford it. Using your argument about “only certain sections of society would be able to travel by plane”, the implication of your comments is that everyone should be able to fly privately as a hobby – just because flying as a hobby is there to do. You need to accept that air travel, like many other things, is a luxury and not a devine right?

How would it be then? Back to the 80’s days of Aer Lingus and BA’s charging £200+ for London to Dublin?

If that reflects the real cost of moving a person from London to Dublin by air – and in my opinion it is closer to the real cost than many “headline” cheap fares – and if that’s what it takes to provide some of the folks in the airline industry a reasonable living these days – then YES, the fare needs to go back to £200+. I don’t care that you won’t be able to do a day trip to Dublin anymore – that’s just the point, its the unrealistic market that’s allowing you to do it.

Ryanair has many positives which you have failed to mention. Such as the amount of jobs it has created throughout Europe. The increased tourism many areas have received because of there low cost flights. And best of all cheep flights for all.

Yes, they have created jobs. At what cost? I’ll leave that one for later, when we see how the industry shakes out during this downturn.

Yes, they have increased tourism. At what cost, to the enviroment if nothing else? As above.

No – cheap flights for all definitely should not be a justification for any low-cost airline to exist – again, see above.

Again, I will reitterate – I believe that the airline industry as an entirity would have been (and would be in future) better off without the likes of Ryanair, despite some of the dubious benefits such airlines bring to the market. On that basis, I continue to hope for their demise despite some of the problems that too would cause.

Andy

What a pathetic thing to say.

Not pathetic at all. Whilst I acknowledge that Ryanair and others of their ilk have done a lot to allow a certain segment of the population to fly regularly, the low-fare segment in general has also:

* Made the airline industry a far less pleasant place to work for almost everyone in the industry – has degraded terms and conditions, reduced pay and increased stress in the industry right across the board. What is the true price of your check ticket for those who work (or have worked) in the industry?

* Whilst some will undoubtedly say that my wish to see Ryanair go away would hurt a lot of its employees, it remaining has the potential to hurt far more across the industry in the long term. Make no mistake – Ryanair offers low fares not because it wants to, but because it has to. When (if) the competition goes away Ryanair fares will rise. This is good neither for the staff at the competition who may lose their jobs, nor for the gullible punters who buy Ryanair’s cheap fares because sooner or later they might be shafted with higher Ryanair fares.

* Vastly increased the problems attributed to the airline industry in terms of global warming and climate change. Were the low-fare sector not around, airline growth would have been much more limited and the man in the street’s perception of aviation in terms of climate change would be much reduced

All in all, my opinion is that the airline industry in general would have been (and could be in future) far better off without the likes of Ryanair. I do not regard my opinion as “pathetic” – it is merely my opinion as a person who is required to monitor and to an extent understand the dynamics of the airline industry as a part of their job, and as a former airline employee who is damned glad that they don’t work in the industry now that the low-fare airlines have made it what it is. As I said, I don’t think that ultra low fares are worth it in terms of their impact on airline staff across the board, and on the environment and in my opinion those who do think they’re worth it are being rather niave.

Andy

To get to the Eurostar from CDG one has to ride the RER first. Really hard to get tickets, since the ticket counter is the same as for the TGV, with a looong line. No ticket machines. Lost another 20 minutes.

In the Gare du Nord RER basement again no signs for Eurostar, only further up, when you’re there already.

The service (and ticketing – and yes there are MANY self service ticket machines for the RER at CDG) is hardly Eurostar’s fault – Eurostar provides a service between Paris and London, not between Charles de Gaulle Airport and London.

In the Gare du Nord RER basement again no signs for Eurostar, only further up, when you’re there already.

Again incorrect. All the way from the ticket barriers to exit the RER at Gare du Nord, there are Eurostar signs. OK it doesn’t say “Eurostar” in great big letters but the Eurostar symbol is on all the signs along with directing arrows.

And the lack of integration with the air system makes it almost useless. They’d really really have to do a luggage check-thru system with the airlines.

Again, that’s not the point of Eurostar. Eurostar provides city-to-city travel which, if you are close into the cities, is somewhat faster and a more pleasant experience than lugging out the airports and flying.

Andy