ante_climaxCan be integrated. Does not say has been. They aren’t the same – and you, yourself, keep insisting that they’re crucially different, when you discuss Typhoon & Rafale, which you criticise for not having enough weapons integrated.
Integrating somehting on a mature platform is different and easier. There is no point arguing with you with your European Bias. Btw Rafale lost another contract :).
ante_climax1. That says (quoting Flug Revue) the UAE has bought Mica. No mention of it being for the F-16E.
2. You consider Wikipedia a reliable source on a matter like this? As far as I know, you edited it yourself.
3. The nearest thing to a reputable source backing up your claims, but it is very odd that the manufacturer of Asraam & Mica does not support them, claiming only Rafale, late-model Mirage 2000 & Mirage F.1 (modernised for Morocco) for Mica, & Tornado, Typhoon & F-18 for Asraam, with F-35 in the future. Do you have any suggestion as to why that would be the case? So far, you’ve ignored my questions about that.I suspect that Flug Revue has fallen prey to rumint, & got it wrong. It wouldn’t be the first time.
As for your claim about Asraam on F-16 – the Flug Revue article appears to be the only source. Not even Wikipedia agrees, & no operator of Asraam owns any F-16s.
BTW, MBDA says “The Hornet is the first American-built fighter to be equipped with a European air-to-air missile.” – referring to Asraam. No mention of F-16 anywhere.
When the sources don’t suite you, blame the credibility of the article.
ASRAAM can be integrated so easily in an F 16 even easier than the EF getting better A2G modes. First do not mean the last anyway :). And like I said Israeli missiles are another option and have already been integrated to the Viper.
ante_climaxSign do you know what load was it carrying while super cruising ? 🙂 Humidity could be another concern.
ante_climaxIAC Keel Laying
Ezhimala naval academy inauguration in January
Staff Reporter
Kochi: The naval academy at Ezhimala will be inaugurated by Prime Minister Manmohan Singh in the second week of January and training of cadets for B.Tech course will commence on June 27.
“Once fully functional, the academy will be an engineering college with state-of-the-art facilities with accreditation from the AICTE and Jawaharlal Nehru University in Delhi will award the degree,” said Commander-in-Chief of the Southern Naval Command (Training Command) Vice-Admiral Sunil K. Damle at a media interaction here on Thursday. He said 750 trainees, including foreign cadets, would train at the academy at any given time. At present, 257 foreign officers from 17 friendly foreign countries were undergoing training at various navy training establishments spread over seven States.
On the under-construction Indigenous Aircraft Carrier (IAC), he said the keel-laying of the Vikrant class vessel would take place in early January. “It is expected to be operational in 2013 as the construction is in keeping with the time-line.”
Shivalik is under sea trials and will be commisoned soon.
ATV to be launched in Mid 2009. The seatrials may undergo delay thanks for Russians not lending their vessels as promised.
P 15A or Kolkata class will be commisoned next year.
ante_climaxI wouldnt adoubt a 42-year-old just because its dressed as a 15 year-old..
May be you would when it can drop bunker buster down your concrete bunker.
While the 15 year old can only fly around. Some 15 year olds need old daddies to teach them to pee the laser straight ! 😀
ante_climaxyes the US is way ahead of others when it comes to AESA, but everyone is not starting at the same level that the US did, since they were the pioneers in that field..others (like Selex of UK) have learnt and already have AESA radars of different types in production. the US Coast Guard is looking at getting Selex AESAs on its C-130s instead of any American variant. so obviously its not like their AESA is primitive compard to any American AESA.
then again, considering that the US refused to share radar source codes with UAE, after developing the APG-80 with their money, I highly doubt they’d transfer or share any major technology related to the AESA set with India.
On the other hand, Thales and Dassault, Saab, MiG, have all claimed that they will transfer all relevant technology for the AESA with India. its upto the IAF to decide how important that is for it.
I agree !
But on an added note. You can always get Russian AESA tech with the PAK FA which will only be a couple of years away from the MRCA induction.
Americans will probably not object integration of European or Israeli missiles. 🙂
In future we can use our own radar, when we attain the capability. 🙂
In short India should do more R&D with Israel, who have a mature aerospace industry in that regard.
ante_climaxthe deal hasn’t even been finalised, so what makes you think that India is already in the process of acquiring ASRAAMs ? I haven’t seen a single report on thta, except for a link you gave to Wikipedia, which itself is based on hearsay about a “possible” order.
Read the cited source. Its Aviation Week & Space Technology, and hence very reputed. You can always ask someone who have that issue.
it is the same commitment that the French showed to the Mirage-2000..there are upgrades available to it, upto the -9 standard, which is as good as the Block 50/52 Falcons.
The Mirage 2000 had tremendous export success. The same cannot be said about the Rafale. Also the 2000-9 is the Mirage equilant of the block 60 tailor made for UAE and far more advanced than any Mirage in the french inventory.
meaning that the weapons fitted will be Israeli and India can put whatever avionics it has developed indigenously on the Gripen NG. that doesn’t mean that Sweden is not going to procure any NGs (although a tiny number as per current predictions), which may differ avionics wise or weapons wise, but not in any other significant way.
Tiny procurement is almost same as non procurement. The Block 60s in UAE and the F 16 IN will share many things that the difference won’t be that signifcant either.
besides, there are lots of American posters here who don’t particularly like the Falcon or the SH, for whatever reasons..
Familiarity breeds contempt.
ante_climaxlater F-18 E/F that had them from the beginning has AESA.
Not true they had mechanically scanned APG 73 at first and these are being retrofitted with the APG 79 now. Which was only inducted into SH prdouced from 2005 onwards. There is a lot of time between now and 2025-30 the preposed retirement date of the teen series’. By the time most of them will recieve an AESA upgrade.
ante_climaxno, the difference is like that between a 50 year old worker (F-16), who has already had several surgeries done to allow him to carry more, whom his own country will not employ, as there are younger, more capable guys around (F-22 and F-35), so he has to feed himself only by seeking employment in other countries, based on his price and the political pressure his country will apply. There is only so much more that surgery will achieve on his frame.
compared to that are younger contemporaries that haven’t yet had reworked airframes, strengthened and re-engined to allow more to be carried, and are all employed and will remain in the employment of their national air forces (except for the MiG-35, which is somewhat similar to the F-16), thus making upgrades more affordable and frequent in the long run.
In the end it all depends on what the IAF wants and how much the Govt. will be willing to pay. India won’t necessarily plonk for the cheapest fighter, as could be seen from the AJT deal, where the MiG-AT and L-159 were available at much cheaper price than the Hawk, yet the Hawk was chosen.
He will be 50 years old only after a couple of decades. He is offering to do the same jobs with much less wages and can be upgraded in the longer run.
As for the airframe limitations I would like to quote scoot here
Third, like I said earlier the Rafale and Viper have similar internal volume. So, to equipp the Rafale to a standard much like the F-16I or F-16E. The Rafale would need similar lumps and bumps! As a matter of fact I have little doubt that as the Rafale Matures it will gain its fair share of “extra’s” to its physical form…………….
The way u say re-worked airframes, You say it like we are buying a bunch olf old falcons and going to rework the frames and strengthen them to carry more loads. These birds will be spanking new with everything integrated.
Ankush also look at the APG 80 video scooter posted and see that the latest block F 16s employ as much or more, sensor fusion than the Euro Canards.
ante_climaxthe US developed the APG-80 AESA on the Block 60 SPECIALLY for the UAE..there was no domestic requirement for an AESA radar on the F-16 and no other export order either. so UAE paid for the development of that. on the other hand, Thales has been building the RBE-2 AESA for a long time now and its paid for by France..if there isn’t an export order for the Rafale, it doesn’t mean that there will be no Rafale F.3 with AESA RBE-2. so, they won’t push the development cost on export customers alone..you think Switzerland (which also is being offered the Rafale F.3 variant) will be asked to pay for the development of the RBE-2 AESA ? if not, then why will India be?
India will not be ‘asked’ to pay for the cost of RBE 2. But its simple market philosophy my friend. When a product, which is produced in small numbers, gets an upgrade, the cost will be born equally by all the consumers. It will be much lower if the Rafale sells more (every competiton the Rafale loses, most recently the Greek one, makes it position worse in competitions in which it is left standing) The American F 16s are going to get an AESA upgrade as well before their retirement ;). The f 15s and F 18s already have gotten them. They will increase the cost of the Rafale citing the increased capabilities. In a way indirectly we will be paying for the R & D.
The best hope for MIG and Rafale in MRCA is a communist coalition coming to power in India.
ante_climaxthere is no guarantee for that..HAL built Su-30MKIs were (at least initially, not sure about right now) a little costlier than imported Irkut built Su-30MKIs..
May be true with Russian weapons. But even the Hawk is much less costly when built in India. So was the Jaguar. 🙂
ante_climaxSo there goes the ‘it has reached the end of its life, so not upgradable further’ arguement. 😀
ante_climaxYour trust in LM and F-16 is very impressive. We will have to wait and see.
No its not about trust. Its rather the advantage in selecting something that already at its prime. 🙂
ante_climaxSince the Block 60 was developed no other buyer of F-16 has been interested of the APG 80 and the development has not stood still since then.
No it has not stood still since then, but its already tested on the F 16 and should give a decent edge over any of India’s rivals in the near distant future.
At best it would be a UAE Block 60 with new CFT’s, it would not be the F-16IN that would be sent to India.
Like I said according to the article they are very comparable. The modficiations are relatively minor, Even if they send the Block 60 per se, It will still give others a run for their money.
ante_climaxThe radar cant just be pushed into the F-16IN, it has to be integrated with all the systems including weapons and adjustments have to be done to both the radar and aircraft.
The probe on the CFT’s is new, the reference to the USN means that they use the probe and drogue system instead of the boom for USAF aircraft such as the F-16. The USN F-18’s has probes already from the beginning and dont need any add on as the F-16IN, the same way as all the other aircraft in the competition.
Now you are making excuses for the sake of it. The article clearly states what will be different from the Block 60 F 16. The Radar is not one of them, it already works with block 60 and hence wont need any more ‘adjustments’. Read the article or quoted text again with regards to the refueller,
The refueling boom is now being flight tested in Fort Worth.
.
Your belief that LM should have a prototype for F-16IN ready for the trials is a bit naive. They will send just a standard F-16 and some brocures and Powerpoint presentations of the F-16IN.
No your belief that they will send any odd F 16 they send for airshows with a few brochures is naive. 10000 page dossiers are submitted by most manufacturers and they were already evaluated, what do you think this is a car or a toy, to send some brochures and power point presentations ? Since things like Refuelling probe are already being flight tested, they will be sending more or less the finished product.
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