Tell me if I get you right:

1) The US launches wars not to promote democracy or retrieve WMDS as it officially declares but to achieve geo-strategic aims.

2) The US is right in chiding allies if they do not sufficiently support the US in its endeavour to secure these narrow (in the sense they benefit only the US) american aims.

1. The First is true. All great powers throughout human history have done so. Why should the U.S be any different. And it is not like they invaded some peaceful democratic state. They invaded Iraq headed by a man who has committed grave crimes against humanity. The world is rid of Saddam, just that the Americans did not do it for free. Why would anyone venture into something if there is no profit at the end of it ? especially when they risk the lives of hundreds of thousands of men and women ?

2. The Allies which go to war with them will eventually reap the benefits of the spoils.

You missed his point. The USA invaded Afghanistan in 2001, & then pulled most of its troops out & invaded Iraq in 2003, leaving Afghanistan unresolved. For the next couple of years, Afghanistan was on the US governments ignore list, & allies were pressured to supply troops for Iraq. The result was predictable: a resurgence of the Taliban. A renewed US commitment to Afghanistan is a belated recognition of the (avoidable, predicted) mess they made first time round.

And USA won the War in Iraq. Secured strategic victory and vital natural resources. Now they are going back to Afghanistan to clean up the mess. Meanwhile the rest of the NATO forces have not contributed proportionally and there have been complaints from Americans and British that the other NATO nations contributing less.

I hope with more American soldiers going to Afghanistan that will be the end of British defeatism and ‘lets negotiate with Taliban’ thiniking.

1. Mistake GWB did was to attack Irak without finnish the job in Afganistan!

2. Mistake was the so called Pakistan allied, they are nothing but allied.
The goverment in Pakistan does not hold the peoples support in any way.

3. Now US is so low om funding/moral/equipment caus of Irak war, they are forced to leave Iraq one way or another in near future to help matters in Afganistan. The worst asshole mistake in Irak was to desolve the Iraki army, just to built a new one 4-5 years later..
And by the way, where in Irak are all those WMD???

1. Iraq had nothing to do with War on Terror. It was just a plot sold to the public to attack the country. Iraq is more a strategic move and America will benefit from it in the future.

2. Pakistan did help immediately after 9/11 and during the invasion of Afghanistan. And Musharraf was doing really well to keep the balance. He was domestically unpopular and now Pakistan has the potential to be another problem. But Pakistani support was vital for Afghanistan Campaign.

3. Despite the financial crisis, America still remains the worlds richest nation and can easily finance the war in Afghanistan. Never underestimate the bouncebackability of free market capitalism. And after the surge Iraq was much safer and American troops should have high morale going to Afghanistan from Iraq. Like I said WMD was to sell the war to the public. Its none the less a solid strategic move.

well spitfire a good logic
but what if GB backs out and calls its troops back and US under obama doesn’t send its troops.

then what if GB & US both urge pak to send its troops to Afghanistan……
pak deploys its forces…….
but also asks china to help…..
china agrees….
sends its troops to Afghanistan………..
india attacks china……..

do u think india has a realistic chance of grabbing tibet…..or
losses kashmir………..
😀

then what will happen…….:eek:

1, Obama will not backout.

2. Pakistan cannot deal with its own terrorist camps and its share of Taleban and will never be asked to get involved there.

3. China will never get involved in places where it has little to gain.

4. India will not attack China, and even if China sends a couple of hundred thousand to Afghanistan it will still have a larger Army back home.

5. In case of an Indo China war, India will probably try to grab as much land as possible for later bargains (a Pakistani strategy, a good one when you are fighting superior opposition)

6. Unlikely to lose Kashmir, more likely Arunachal Pradesh in case of defeat.

7. Nothing will happen other than more U.S presence in Afghanistan. Time you woke up :rolleyes:

Schorsch,

Though there’s little direct experience left of Malaya/Indonesia (I think that there may be a handful of spec aircrew who flew in the later part of the Confrontation still serving), Malaya formed the foundation of UK counter insurgency doctrine for decades afterwards, and it is still being actively analysed and taught at staff colleges, etc. It led directly to the successful disengagement in the Persian Gulf, and to the UK contribution in Oman. It provided useful lessons from a SUCCESSFUL counter-insurgency campaign and is still viewed institutionally as being something we can learn from.

The USA hasn’t had a successful COIN campaign to draw lessons from.

Ante Climax,

Your comment about GWB being a visionary initially led me to think that you were being ironic or sarcastic, but to my horror, you’re serious, aren’t you?

People can draw their own conclusions about that, but I’d simply point out that what you see as ‘defeatist statements’ are actually pretty moderate and realistic assessments of the nature of the campaign in Afghanistan and what it’s aims should be. UK officers tend not to be mindless “HOO YAR”s who parrot simplistic and unrealistic slogans and so can come across as less gung ho (more considered) than some US officers.

As to the ‘success’ and ‘stability’ achieved in Iraq…..
:rolleyes:

Actually in the wider strategic terms Iraq war was definitley worth it for America. It serves their strategic interests to have troop prsence their and despite the denials the oil in Iraq is secure and American companies are already entering into agreements with the Iraqi government.

I am talking pure politics and strategy here and not about the human toll or humanitarian crisis. Furhter down the years GWB will be considerd a visionary and a great President by Americans. The rest of the world may hate him though.

Afghanistan is the first line of defense in the War on Terror. And the price paid there is worth it. I hope more countries join the Americans if the U.K/Nato chickens out.

Afghanistan has a traditional tribal culture with constantly changing alliances and allegiances. It is also a Muslim country. It is a country with terrain that facilitates indefinite resistance to a military opponent.

No foreign power is ever likely to “defeat” Afghan resistance. If it is defeatist to acknowledge that, the sensible guys are the defeatists.

Oh Really, Watch the Americans do it alone now. 😀

What like leaving the job half done, pulling a load of troops out and sending them to war somewhere else?

:confused:

Iraq is stable. The exit deal is in place. Oil revenues are secured for the future. Afghanistan is a more dire situation now and they are sending troops there ? Whats wrong with it ? Atleast they aren’t saying lets negotiate with the Taleban are they ?

Americans are tough and non negotiating when it comes to terrorism especially in Afghanistan. While Brits are eager to engage the Taleban in dialogue and solve the issue diplomatically, and very eager to pull out. It has to be noted that the defeatist statements coming from British officers serving in Iraq in BBC and other media do not help the coalition causes either.

British do not want to fight the war in Afghanistan, the Americans do. And i do not think its good to keep people who no longer want to be fighting there.
I like the commitment Bush and now Obama has given to the war in Afghanistan, I am yet to see a positive commitment from British for a long time.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7653116.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7747145.stm

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5jno_SMCFIaNY3tEp770m2x5HcstQ

Defeatist Brits 😡

And about the Iraq mess. Republicans will have the last laugh as in future the Oil in iraq is going to serve America well. And George W Bush will be hailed as a visionary, years from now.