ante_climaxAnd also.. Is the Mk2 intending to be some kind of multirole? or only air-to-air?
Even the MK1 is intended to be multirole. Its A2A a performance is rather decent and is not underpowered in that sense. Its low altitude performance with the current engine is nothing to write home about making it a poor multirole platform as it is.
So MK2 with new engine would be true Multirole.
ante_climaxWell then back up your point: There is a search tool on the forum, use it and find something I’ve said that I can’t back up.
Like right now you cannot backup with any links.
And here you go again…
Sagarika
http://ibnlive.in.com/news/india-can-now-fire-missiles-from-under-water/65124-3.html
INSAS is not an AK 47 rip off, It incorporates several designs such as the AK and M16. It uses 5.56x45mm Nato ammo.
Astra
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/india/astra.htm
clearly state it uses locally developed propellant.
ante_climaxSome Random Pics:D
ante_climaxThere is no point in talking to some one who cannot back up anything he has ever said.
You may be paid to do research or may have set foot on the moon before Armstrong. It matters nothing to me because at the moment you are talking utter trash.
As for SLBMs The Sagarika will be operational by 2010. And a submarine launched version of Agni 3 a few years later.
I hope to see you here when it does. 😀
This is one of the main reasons I am against any joint R&D like the PAK FA. So that every dick tom and harry will come and say its all Russian without a single link to back up his claim with.
Mr. RSM55 can you please point out how the Astra has nothing to do with Indian R&D
ante_climaxAnd what kind of data and experience India has managed to amass here, compared to China, f.e.?
Light trainers, indigenous MBT, indigenous sub, indigenous carrier, indigenous SAM, indigenous light combat aircraft, even indigenous assault rifle – they are in effect dead in the water in spite of (or due to) years of R&D and billions invested. Even India’s space programme could not function without the Russians.Meanwhile China has reproduced the Flanker, produces its own mobile IRBM and maybe ICBMs, has started SLBM production, has mastered access to space and produces its own light trainer and advanced fighter.
Fact is that India, while being quite capable to build some demo prototypes, is still absolutely unable to start any kind of serial production of any advanced military hardware that is not at least licensed to India.
And it will not change very soon, given the 14mil new unqualified workforce that India has to find a job for every year for and the total reliance on a few high tech and semi-high tech outsourced industries that employ a relatively little portion of India’s population, combined with a state deficit rising by 8 billion USD every year.
What a load of crap. The Indigenous assault rifles or INSAS have replaced most of the rifles in the army inventory.
The Arjun is a very capable platform which was rejected because of logistical problems, and not capability, yet 140 of them will enter service. Chinese have little option to buy the stuff they develop regardless of the quality, India on the other hand have the option to buy fro foreign suppliers.
The IAC project and ATV (submarine) projects are going very smoothly and will be operational by next decade. The Akash SAM systems are doing rather well and will be inducted soon. The same is true with the Astra BVR missiles.
The only project that has been drawn out is the LCA, and as discussed elsewhere the Defense Minister has said that atleast 140 of this aircraft will be in IAF service in next decade.
China have not reproduced the flanker, they have copied older mig designs. And They havedeveloped the J 10. Credit where its due, because they have had little foreign options they have perfected their trade using the trial and error method.
Indian missile program is doing very well and 3/4 of China is under the range of the Agni platforms. The PAD and AAD ballistic missile systems are the first of its kind in Asia and we have beaten the Chinese to implementing Ballistic missile shield.
When the United States forced Russia to stop supplying Cryogenic engines to our space programme our scientists developed their own. India’s mission to the moon cost a quarter of what it cost the Chinese and Japanese.
At least do some research before bashing other countries. :rolleyes::cool:
ante_climaxThe main problem now appears to be the flight performance of the LCA.
Which, is compounded by the lack of power………….:o
The problem lies in the defense procurement rules of India and the lack of spine of the politicians. If you want to develop indigenous stuff you will have to sacrifice a bit at first. The armed forces of India are under full control of the civilian government, unlike in some other countries which became independent during the same stage as we were. And this was what our defense minister said about the LCA. Whether the AF love it or not they are going to get it period.
Bangalore, October 25 : It had been grounded even before it took flight after the Air Force questioned its fighting capabilities but the indigenous Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) seems to have got a new lease of life.
Declaring that the project would not be abandoned, Defence Minister A K Antony announced on Saturday that the country would purchase a total of 140 aircraft to form seven fighter squadrons of the IAF.
The Minister, who conducted a review meeting of the Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) in Bangalore, admitted that the project had been hit by a series of delays but said the aircraft would now be ready by the end of 2010 and the first of the fighters would be inducted the next year.
While the IAF has already committed to buying two squadrons of the indigenous fighter, this is the first time that the minister has gone on record to say that as many as 140 fighters will eventually be inducted into the Air Force. “After many years of waiting since 1982 (when the project was sanctioned) the LCA has at last become a reality. We will get the first operational fighter by 2011. The final aim is to acquire seven squadrons of the fighter,” Antony told reporters.
source: http://www.indianexpress.com/news/-LCA-here-to-stay–IAF-to-induct-140-fighters-/378025
ante_climaxHow could it replace types that will be withdrawn for over a decade when it reaches operational service. And even a basic JAS 39 A is more advanced then LCA in its current form.
You are comparing a production aircraft with one without a radar. Anyway if the proposed Elta’s EL/M-2052 AESA is true then it will have an edge over all Gripen models apart from the NG.
The Gripen is expected to be in service for another 30-40 years, F 16 till 2025 at least, so even if it only enters service in 2013-15 the Tejas MK2 will not be obsolete. It will have new engine AESA radar and Python 5 integration. 😀
ante_climaxIf you get technical yes that’s a difference. But it voids his arguement that Sweden won’t sell to dodgy democracies.
And yes MRCA are more capable. But we would like some cheap stuff to deal with cheaper threats.
ante_climaxWell that has not prevented you lot from giving Pakistan the Erieye :rolleyes:.
Sweden has loaned two of these systems to Greece, while they are still owned by the Swedish Air Force. SAAB signed an 8 billion krona provisional contract to supply 6 of these systems to Pakistan, which was finalized in June 2006. Pakistan Air force had rejected the longer-ranged E-2C Hawkeye offer as it uses PESA radar, whereas ERIEYE is comparatively shorter ranged, but has the more advanced AESA radar (Pakistan Navy has however separated its paths from the air force & have opted for E2C Hawkeye to be mounted on its P3C Orion aircraft).
ante_climaxThis does not however say anything about the Vicky. She had to go through extensive conversion to make her a true aircraft carrier. Has this increased decreased the number of crews ? Do you have any info with regards to this ?
ante_climaxIf, the Kaveri was doing so well why would the need the French and had to purchase the American F-404 as a stop gap??????
I guess its like this. There was no access to F-404 while the sanctions were on, that set the program back by a few years. while more money and time went to the r&d of kaveri. Sanction ends, the guys get their hands on the F-404 flight testing and other stuff starts, less money and time for the Kaveri. Project abandoned whilst delays, decides to get a better foreign engine. Sanction us today and tmrw we will dig up the Kaveri again for sure lol 😀
ante_climaxAmen to that.
The LCA is intended to replace the non Bison Mig 21s and the retired Mig 23s. When it reaches maturity it may replace the 130 odd upgraded Bisons as well.
The LCA was intended to be produced in much higher numbers, now the MRCA are going to fill some of the numbers initially envisaged for the LCA.
ante_climaxRafale is also another strong contender. I would like the F 16 with a future upgrade to JSF :diablo:
As for the LCA, its the low end of the spectrum its to make up numbers and deal with the JF 17s and J 7s of this world.
ante_climaxLCA looks a lot like the Mirage anyway. I think in the next 2-3 years India would make some big decisions, it may either choose to stay independent and continue the Indigenous programs or become a U.S ally and scrap the fighter program and concentrate on stuff like missiles, avionics etc like the Israelis did.
ante_climaxThe engine of LCA Tejas MK1 is from USA (F404-GE-F2J3 and F404-GE-IN20).
The engine of LCA Tejas MK2 is highly likely to be from USA (F414) too.
The Kaveri engine now is in the hand of Frenchman.
The development of FBW system for LCA was heavily helped by LM and BAEs.
Do you really believe this fighter can be immune from the sanction of USA??
Do you know that the development of the indigenous KAVERI engine was doing rather well while the sanctions were still on. Any sanction will likely trigger more investment on indigenous r&d. With LCA we may need to source another engine, with the F 16 you can forget about the fleet.
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