ante_climaxAye but at least the fulcrum can “one day” achieve all the super duper avionic, sensor fusion. The fat viper simply can’t lose all the extra weight its gained. Airframe performance does matter and thats why the russkis emphasize that you can convert an air superiority bird to a striker and not vice versa. Case in point is MKI or even typhoon.
Its getting tired with people claiming the Viper as a fat slouch. The CFTs can be removed and they offer more aerodynamic performance than external tanks. Remove the CFTs and the Block 60+ is not that fat anymore.
Its going to take a lot of money/work to get the MIG 35 near the avionics standards of the F 16 IN. And the MIG is not going to be cheap as many here think, they demanded over 65 million for the additional Ks and the 35 is going to cost more than that without TVC. Then add up the cost of customization and you will get an over prized bird. You can probably get one and a half F 16s for that cost
Russians say they can convert an air superiority bird into a stirker. Thats a good claim on paper, while doing that they are getting new Attack/Bombers like Su 34s and upgrading the Su 24s and 25s. I doubt they are intersted in getting true multirole capability in their Mig 29s or Su 27s.
The MIG 35 is not viable anything over 55-60 Million ie. with TVC engines
ante_climaxLet me remind you that the leadership you have voted for (Bush&Co.) has shown far less concern for preservation of the world and far more fanatism than current govt of Iran. You are the last one to point finger on someone.
Removing the abusive Taliban from power and War on Iraq can hardly be termed as action against preservation of the world. The world is a safer place for that.
Obama has started with **** again by removing clauses which said the US will not fund Pakistan Military unless it stopped training millitants. They would never learn would they till another 9/11 happens the American ‘messiah’ will be soft.
ante_climaxAustin,
The Super Hornet purchases were reviewed again by the new Australian government and they decided that it was the best option. Jason Symonds I think his name in this very forum in another thread exposed the nay sayers about the ozzie purchase.
ante_climaxTwo Aircraft are discounted by most here. The F 16 IN and the Gripen. I think both of these represent IAF’s original requirements for a single engined fighter (Mirage 2000). Because the Viper is nearing its end of life LM may offer a much better deal than Boeing including the shifting of the production line to India when Fort Worth will be working overtime with the JSF deliveries. The F 16 should also be cheaper to operate and maintain.
The Gripen on the other hand has an advantage because it do not represent a major power (like Aspis and I before him pointed out) Sweden perhaps needs the order more than the other participants and we can expect a good deal from them. And from what I have read about the NG it will not be inferior to any other MRCA competitor in a great deal with its innovative radar and added range/payload.
I believe at the end all the twin engined ‘heavies’ are going to lose out to one of these two.
ante_climaxAll the SH fans are going to be disappointed when the Viper is selected
Phalcon is coming in three days 🙂
Harinder Mishra
Jerusalem, May 20 (PTI) Barring any last-minute hiccups, Indian Air Force (IAF)pilots will fly home the first of the three Phalcon Airborne Early Warning and Control Systems (AWACS) on Sunday, making India the first country in the South-Asian region to have such a capability.“It’s ready to leave on May 24 for Jamnagar,” defencesources said here today. The delivery of the multi-billion dollar aircraft was scheduled on May 18, but last minute technical check-ups delayed its departure.
The AWACS will provide India means to track incoming missiles and look deep into the neighbouring countries under all weather conditions.
AWACSare primarily used for detection of incoming hostile cruise missiles and aircraft from hundreds of kms away in all weather conditions, as well as directing air defence fighters during combat operations against enemy jets. It also helps detect troop build up in hostile territories.
With the induction of the Phalcons, the frontline IAF fighters like Sukhoi-30MKIs, Mirage-2000s and Jaguars will now be backed by “eyes in the sky” to look much beyond country’s borders through direct data linking.
The delivery of the first of the three aircraft, bought at a whopping price of 1.1 billion USDs, is almost a year and a half behind schedule. As per the tripartite deal between India, Russia and Israel, the aircrafts should have been delivered by the end of March this year. PTI
http://www.ptinews.com/pti%5Cptisite.nsf/0/9FC76AFD022CF934652575BC002F65D8?OpenDocument
ante_climaxI never thought of that! With munitions under the wings the F-35 isn´t even stealthy. Without stealth and supercruise it´s not even a 4,5 gen fighter but more a 4th gen fighter! 😮
BTW, the internal payload (which counts) isn´t that impressive.
That will do for bombing the **** out of countries America is going to go to war with (i.e countries with far less capability than they have) Air superiority will be achieved by F 35s flying with internal stores and may be some Raptors then these would bomb the **** out of them. 😎
ante_climaxThe MRCA Circus Rolls On
Rafale allowed to take part in aircraft bid
K.V. Prasad
NEW DELHI: French fighter aircraft Rafale has been allowed to take part in the Indian Air Force’s bid to acquire 126 medium multi-role combat aircraft.
The decision was taken at a meeting of the Defence Procurement Board here on Monday, sources in the Defence Ministry said. Rafale, made by Dassault, was earlier declared out of the race after technical evaluations. Sources in the Ministry said the Technical Evaluation Committee had made the recommendation, as Dassault did not provide information on some equipment and add-ons that the IAF wanted to be in the aircraft. However, the Defence Procurement Board, which met under the chairmanship of Defence Secretary Vijay Singh, decided not to accept the recommendation. The Board felt the French firm should also get a look-in when the Indian Air Force conducted field trials over the next few months, the sources said.
After the news emerged in April, the French launched a fresh bid. Many of the issues that remained unresolved were since then addressed, the sources said. Now that the parameters set out in the technical evaluations had been complied with, it was felt that Rafale should be allowed to take part in the bid, along with Boeing’s F/A18, Lockheed Martin’s F-16, Saab’s Gripen, MIG-35 and Eurofighter Typhoon.
F/A18, F-16, MiG-35 and Eurofighter Typhoon took part in the Bangalore Aero India Show this February, but Rafale and Gripen did not participate in the live display.
Saab announced the opening of its office in India and put up a cockpit simulator, while the French delegation was led by its Defence Minister.
http://www.hindu.com/2009/05/21/stories/2009052155261100.htm
ante_climaxI’d like to see a towed decoy though, but only the tiffy is supposed to offer it – or does the shornet have one as well?
The Super Hornet and F 16s also have towed decoys. I am not sure if they are on offer.
The AN/ALE-55 Fiber-Optic Towed Decoy for the F 18 E/F & the older ALE 50 for the Viper
Contrary to what Teer said the EW system on the F 16 IN is not going to be Falcon Edge. It will be the ACES which is also very decent, I do not know how it compares to the Falcon Edge, Resident experts may help with this. It has also been used in Block 52+ Vipers of the Moroccans.
http://www.raytheon.com/capabilities/products/aces/
http://www.es.northropgrumman.com/solutions/falconedge/
The Falcon Edge includes a Raytheon (Goleta, CA) fiber-optic towed decoy (FOTD).
I don’t know if the ACES suite includes a towed decoy. The F 16 IN may not be that much better than the Block 60.
ante_climaxThe OZ forces plan to retire all their F-18Fs by 2020 (AWST),in favour of the JSF.What point is there in therefore buying an aircraft in its last avatar which other air forces are going to discard in a decade hence? Serious thought should be given to the future obsolescence factor of the various types competing,as we should not be sold a turkey at Christmas prices!
I would like to see a link to that article. The F 18 E/F is going to be in USN service atleast till 2030. Rafale and Eurofighter will be in service will into the 2040s. Many Eurofighter partner nations and France do not have a fifth generation program to discard them for. It is inconcievable that every one is going to jump into the JSF bandwagon all of a sudden (although swerve fooled me on April 1 saying Germany would :|)
ante_climaxSwerve,
The contract for the Desert Falcons was signed much earlier and that would explain it
Ankush,
I don’t remember where I read it from when i searched for it now i did not get the original.
It was also posted by toan on another forum.
http://www.f-16.net/f-16_forum_viewtopic-t-3018.html
T
he original purpose of F-16E/F and APG-80 is built for the UAE AF, and it is said that the Congress was very concerned about it (The best USA’s radar techonology enters the service of the foreign AF before formally enters the service of USA AF?? That is ridiculous!!) and demanded that USAF should have the better one AESA radar in-service before selling the APG-80 to UAE. The result of this demand is the 18 F-15C with AN/APG-63V2 in USAF today. The effective detective range of the AN/APG-63V2 for the fighter-size target, according to the report of AW&ST, is about 105 NM (195 km) class. The APG-80’s detective range should be less than this theoretically.
ante_climaxthe APG-80 was the first American in-service AESA radar. I would think of it as being a 1st generation AESA radar(correct me if I’m wrong and if the US did develop an AESA radar prior to the APG-80), while the APG-79 is a 3rd gen AESA radar. but, while the APG-79 is still not fully mature, the APG-80 is a mature AESA.
I am not sure if it was developed first but the congress required the U.S to have fighters with AESA operational before it could export it to a foriegn customer. So they retrofited some F 15s with an AESA ie before the APG 80 vipers were made/delivered.
ante_climaxNot going to happen. Only the U.S congress can make such a decision and they will not. They are not going to give special considerations to anyone. But like Aspis pointed out, the administration in power will always choose whether to exercise the restrictive clauses according to the state of the relationship the US has with the client state.
I believe there will be strings but far fewer than many people claim there is.
ante_climaxOh, another means of US policy interfering with weapons sales, is the missile sales. For example, they had offered us to buy second hand ships. They navy liked them for only one reason. That they were SM-2 capable. They refused to give us SM-2, because the Turks didn’t have it. So we dropped the deal, because otherwise it was old and big ship, it didn’t worth the crew requirements. That’s about how we ended up with today 0 major US surface units. We refused all subsequent offers for other ship types and went german-dutch and in the future french.
IMO it would depend on the Americans and we will have only ourselves to blame if we purchase American stuff without going through the agreements proper. If we believe American jets for example do not offer much restriction then they may be selected for MRCA. But if you get them anyway despite restrictive clauses and then whine when the Americans pull the strings, we will only have ourselves to blame.
I doubt the Americans will put so much strings when there is real competition like the MRCA.
ante_climaxNice post Aspis (as ever)
My question is that if it is worded like that then that would not make much sense as the Americans are trying to sell more weapons to India.
What use would the P 8I be if you cannot use it against Chinese/Pakistani subs in terms of war ?
I think its a bit of scaremongering by a large section of Indian Armed forces and public who don’t trust the Americans.
But with the UPA back in power without left support any pragmatist will know that American weapons are going to be chosen.
ante_climaxIt was done. Remember Rajiv Gandhi? I remember him being elected, after his mothers assassination (I was in India during that election). He sent 50000 Indian troops to Sri Lanka. Cost India a lot of dead, including Rajiv, & a lot of money.
BTW, what would be the excuse for keeping a sizable force in Sri Lanka?
Indian troops sent during the time of Rajiv were fighting the LTTE in general. They used guerilla tactics against us. It will be different if it is a confrontation with the Srilankan Army.
The excuse would be to safeguard the interest of the tamils till a settlement with the government can be reached on their status and rights. But pragmatically you do things to delay such a settlement by making demands which are not acceptable and slowly consolidating your position there. I am sorry it may be unfair but we cannot let Sri Lanka a few hundred miles from us be a Chinese bastion.
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