ante_climaxAnte, Didn’t you get the message earlier? Dont have time to talk to you – hopefully till you put on a few more years in terms of maturity. And BIO is an adult with a job so I’d rather reply to him myself – and sorry, I do really doubt you are one of my “fellow Indians” and really dont care which forum made you cry or why!
I was not speaking to you either. You have no manners, you speak in a degrading manner about me to others, I explain my point to the same person so that they may see both view points and decide for themselves.
I dont know what you are talking about nor do I care. Frankly, you are also one of the gents on “ignore” given your non stop lunacy about pushing the Tejas for the MRCA. Somehow the ignore list option doesnt really work when you chaps are quoted by others, so I just scroll past. Please do me a favour and dont reply to me or any of my posts, and spare me the tedium of replying to your “thoughts”.
This is a discussion forum and unlike Bharat Rakshak people are going to have opinions you do not like. And no one is going to ban anyone here for having different opinions. Your attitude will not work here because here everyone is equal. I dont agree with many of Abhis views but he has the right to express them and he will. If you dont like it please ignore him, but he may reply to you and you can do nothing about it.
It will be either the Gripen or F 16 because of lower operating costs and price, I also think the order will go beyond the 126.
ante_climaxbring it on,
It is because he brings the ‘holier than thou’ attitude from the Bharat Rakshak forums to this site. There if you disagree with the majority view then you are in trouble. Like many of my fellow Indians he is not open to have a constructive discussion. The rest of his comments do not warrant a reply. For some one who says his time is pretty limited, he does spend a lot of time defaming others.
If India does have to go American – I’d prefer the F/A-18 E/F. More upgrade potential for one & two engines versus one, for survivability. Its like choosing a SUV versus a hotrod in some ways, but risk mitigation is critical & I’d think the F/A-18 E/F will face lesser attrition in Indian conditions, especially with our bird strike hazards.
What is the artirtion rate of a Mirage 2000 compared to a Mig 29 in Indian service. If they are comparable then your theory via vis more survivability for bird strike is unfounded. Single engine means less operating costs and new engines are pretty reliable.
The Viper is definitely the worst of the lot. It simply is going nowhere in the next 30 odd years. If it has to be single engined, the Gripen would be a better choice.
If India chooses the Viper I will not be surprised to see further developments down the line. They say the Viper will be in US service till 2025 and the Super Hornet till 2030 five years is all there is.
Austin with the UPA back in power, optimism aside there is little chance for the MIG
ante_climaxNo- I was just pointing to the old dictum of making friends and influencing people. And what his posts resulted in. Good on you both.
Actually an American forumer pissing of a few Indian members on a British defense forum is not going to make any impact on India buying American jets. Even if the Indian members write to their ministery or influence several Generals and Marshalls and Admirals in their family ahem.
On a positive note do you know anything about the planned UCAVs he mentions in the aritcle. Is there anything under development ?
ante_climaxBRF doesn’t need to be maligned. out there, they have qualified folks talking and ignorant folks who come talking nonsense are not entertained. looks like you’re one of those ignorant guys and someone ticked you off there, which is why you hold a grudge against BRF.
that website has some of the best articles and photos on the IAF anywhere on the web. People who contribute to it are serving and retired IAF/IA and IN folks, as well as people with access to privy info, which is why they don’t brook rubbish.
Sad to inform you that I am not yet banned there and is an active member. That forum has no tolerance to anything, and if some one disagrees he is called the P**I word and kicked out or insulted by senior members Yay :rolleyes:
The website is pretty good. I really like it to be honest. But the forum along with its moderators is a shame. I really find Pak Def more tolerant and their members more respectful. 🙂
ante_climaxIn fact, I know of several visitors to these fora who now loath the F-16 and F/A-18 E/F given the manner in which you behave on the IAF threads. And a couple have even written their objections about these aircraft to decision makers.
You must really be stupid if you think people writing to ‘decision makers’ will have any impact on the choice of the MRCA. Most probably it will be a political decision taken by the government.
This sums you up and shows everyone who is living in la la land.
Oh and scoot there are two kind of people in this world,
1. People like me who say things they will do honestly, I said i will reply to him as I have a lot of time to spare.
2. People like him who say one thing and do another. Like telling us how valuable his time is wasted on us and then wasting it a bit further on insulting us 🙂
ante_climaxBest is to ignore him scoot. He is one of those Bharat Rakshak forum members who think they know it all. In reality that forum is the most orthodox Indian forum I have came across. They even banned Abhimanyu for saying the IAF is corrupt in there.
Obviously there only technical talks from supposedly qualified people are entertained. And they all believe that I live on their tax money.
IAF news,
Air force pressed into poll duty in J&K
The Indian Air Force pressed its helicopters into service to take poll officials and material to snow-bound areas in two Jammu and Kashmir parliamentary constituencies where voting will be held on Wednesday in the last round of the general elections.
According to state chief electoral officer B.R. Sharma, men and material were airlifted by MI-17 and Cheetah choppers of the IAF to 97 polling stations in Gurez, Karnah, Keran and Macchil in Baramulla and Zanskar and Nobra in Ladakh.
“Four MI-17 and five Cheetah helicopters besides state-owned chopper have been pressed into service. At least 56 sorties have been made to position poll parties and election-related material at these polling stations,” Sharma said.
He said air sorties to Gurez and Zanskar had to be made because the road to these two areas is still closed due to heavy snow.
.
ante_climaxF 16 Rafale & Mirage 2000
I also like Mig 15 & F 86
ante_climaxthe very definition of a troll !
I was simply trying to get him to ignore me.
the benefits of not holding a job and wasting University grants. jobless !
The JRF test is not an easy one to pass. They even have one for engineers. Try.
excepting your favourite LM and its F-16IN and Boeing’s F-18IN of course !
That would be the F 16 IN and Gripen IN if you are talking about my favourite aircraft.
yet, you DO believe some internet Pakistani fanboy who claims to be able to give the exact STR based on edited youtube videos ! simply amazing ! do you read textbooks and do any practical work or do you simply go by what internet posters write about archeological excavations ? I guess you go by the latter.
Yes I do partly because the Dawn and News do not print the next day that the JF 17 has poor AoA or G loading or is overweight. The Hindu and other Indian dailies do, and when there isa credible national daily against your flight testers, Its hard to believe everything the ADA says.
do they claim to know more about dirt, ancient coins or artefacts ? no.
I never claimed i know more about jets either. All I said that i refuse to believe things they say as they are because national dailies say otherwise.
Ante –
If you are indeed interested in weights – which I doubt, you will get the answers in MSD Wollens article about the LCA in 2007, available on the net. It will show you the weight reduction achieved between the TD to LSP.
The second article is incorrect – its a weight gain of 1T, ie 1000 Kgs and the author is confused. I mailed the Hindu ombudsman at the time, and he said he would look into it, still awaiting his reply.
I will certianly look into it although do not expect me to believe everything i read there. Then again I may based on my own conclusion.
We probably could have had a civil discussion had you not diverted it to personal insults.
I will not be making a further post on this issue either.
Adios
ante_climaxAnte – you just crossed the line from being a bizarre sideshow to somebody who is totally and absolutely loony.
Sorry, but I am done wasting my time on you.
Thank you. Good Riddance. I asked you to ignore me did I not.
Yes, and we all know what your so called archaeological research would be worth.
After all, if you dont find something great – you will lose your funding.
Wow you don’t know how that works here. I get paid to do my PhD thesis. ie as a Research scholar. The government funds the excavations and we are just taking part, if we don’t find anything i guess its your tax payer money so better pray i find something.
In contrast, you claim to know more about aviation versus those who spent their entire lifetime in it.
I made no such claims sadly. All i said was i refuse to believe everything they write. If that makes me a fanboy and them aviation gods I am sorry to dishonour your ‘gods’
ante_climax1. Weight reduction programs reduced the weight of the LCA to the desired levels. Check TD1 weight onwards, f.e.
2. IAF added additional requirements which are NOT met by the current Ge404 F2J3.
3. IAF wants MORE equipment on the LCA MK2 which make even the GE404 IN20 insufficient and an entirely new engine necessary.
4. People associated with the program are more creditable & more experienced than a fanboy on the internet who only believes what he wishes to believe.
Kindly give proof for the statements if you can
1. The Tejas is 1.5 tonne overweight this is pass the TD stage
http://www.thehindu.com/2008/09/27/stories/2008092755480700.htm
http://www.hindu.com/2008/05/09/stories/2008050955331300.htm
Now the second is more recent. It says that it is nearly 2 tonnes over weight i guess this is because of the added stuff you mentioned that goes into the Tejas.
So what the IAF requirmenets have done is basically make an overweight aircraft obese.
As for your fourth point. I guess that is true. But then you can see that in majority of this discussion forum, people are doubting claims of even bigger aviation firms like Lockheed Martin and Dassault.
The JSF pro and anti Jsf debate will not exist if everyone believed the test directors pilots and LM executives.
Sorry – I dont have as much time as you do!
I am gainfully employed – not the same as you.
And you can dedicate entire days for the sake of your ego, even when you are just writing trash.
Great.
So kindly ignore me. If you are of the attitude that you will insult me if i post something not in line with you, then we could be here till one runs out of time.
ante_climaxAnd obviously, experience in engineering being zilch?
Secondly – even if you were just doing what you stated you were, it doesnt prevent you from doing research on topics you post on.
So far you have written a lot – almost all of which is tripe. A bit of basic research would have helped, or is it restricted to “excavations”.
I read things on forums and resources that come to me and that is that. I don’t care what you think i have written, if you think it is non sense then continue believing so. I am not going to change the way i do things for you or anyone. If i get into trouble or get banned i simply make another id from another email or another ip range if people are playing hardball.
If you post tosh, I will rebut it. Its that simple.
Then i will reply to that. I can be here all day or till a mod bans either one of us/ locks thread etc.
I am glad to know my tax money goes for such noble endeavors, but frankly- education is meant to open your mind to knowledge besides your field of work.
Your Tax money, I doubt it has anything to do with it. And I am paid for what I do and they do tax me as well.
I am sure your stipend should cover that?
You were offering something else I said no these would be nice.
You apparently dont.
The prattle you wrote is something even a 6th standard kid wont – so what excuse do you have?
That the sixth standard kid is stupid and should study his lessons better.
That the leadership structure between the Mil and Civ sides is dependent on jointsmanship and give and take, and its not a petty order as you want business?
It is not give and take when one side is clearly subordinate to the other. The government have full authority to dismiss top brass officers in all armed forces and appoint them. It also can cut the number of service men if it so wishes.
Hissy fit – tsk tsk!
Same line several times makes you boring
LOL – what a joke you are!
The men who would know most about the product are those who BUILD it or OPERATE it – incidentally by your standards, he is inherently biased.
Ante – I would really like to have some evidence about your so called work in archaelogy.
It boggles my mind to see ANYONE who is educated who would make such outlandish comments!
Insults and excalamations aside a vast array of threads in this forum deals with disputing the biased statements of manufacturers and developers of fighters.
I grasped what you were saying and I rebutted you. Thin skin aside – apparently you have nothing to offer.
No you answered totally irrelevent ****e .
I seriously doubt it.
I have yet to come across anyone who is as clueless about the basic facts about India (including the democratic structure) and claims to be a research student, as you have been.
That is only your opinion or belief rather that I am clueless, which reflects on you more than on me. Repeating the same statements (that my perception on the working of Indian democracy is wrong) will not make you look wise. Like I said they are your opinions only.
The references I noted were from Air Marshal MSD Wollen and AM Philip Rajkumar. Between them, they have several thousands of hours of test flight and organizational experience and headed both HAL, and ADA respectively, not to mention having climbed to the very top of their parent org.
I understood your need to prop up your own ego, and pretend to be of import.
But compared to them and what they do know about the LCA, or aircraft programs in general, I am afraid ’tis you who is the fanboy.
Their little pinkie’s have seen more aviation oil, than you are likely to see in your lifetime. Those are the facts.
I admit that I am a fanboy
But i refuse to believe these people who were closely associated with the program and paid to do so on every word they say.
As for the aviation fuel jibe. Well i expect to see a lot more of dirt ancient coins, and artefacts than they would ever do in their lifetime.
ante_climaxAnte, desparation will get you nowhere.
The TD to LSP weight issue is well documented in the Articles by MSD Wollen and Philip Rajkumar. And what is also documented are the varying weights and LRU reduction and weight reduction.
The current weight gain is because of the details I stated. And I even detailed which specific areas.
Finally – note whom I detailed it to – Vikas – somebody logical, responsible and who posts like an adult. Not to you.
It will not get you anywhere either.
There are several facts.
1. All LCAs built were overweight.
2. Why not reduce the target weight in papers if it is increased by IAF requirement.
3. I don’t swallow all trash written by people associated with the program.
4. Weight reduction is one of the priorities for the LCA. They apparently want it reduced and so far not successful.
5. If you have any thought of having the last say on this matter, you are mistaken I would devote entire days just to deny you that.
ante_climaxYou “is” a research student – on what exactly?
You have voted several times? On what exactly?
Nearing mid twenties – gee, what an accomplishment – jobs held, experience?
Your posts are junk – they are ill researched, poorly worded diatribes.
You need to introspect on your perceived education.
On Indian elections.
Jobs held none. Have Joint Research Fellowship (JRF) from the University Grants Commission. Experience in several excavations the recent being in Pataliputra.
If my posts are Junk, Kindly ignore them.
My education serves me right, I get University grant which is pretty decent I also get paid for participation in field works.
And you want milk chocolate with that?
No some Cheese and Chips would be nice
Please, please stop talking rot. The more you write, the worse you reflect on the state of education in India today (and I do hope you were educated elsewhere, for we had entire chapters on our democratic structure in standards 6th through 10th).
I know the democratic structure. You saying things otherwise will not make it that way.
Nobody “controls” anybody.
It is a fine balance of give and take which is what happens in a democracy.
If you have indeed voted, I wonder if you even understood what voting is.
The armed forces are under the control of the government. The president is the nominal commander in chief that is all.
I am not interested in your perceptions about my level of understanding.
Links are available via the internet. Unless of course, you havent even heard of AM MSD Wollen or AM Philip Rajkumar.
They are a tad sight more creditable than your youtube, he said, she said stories.
I also confess, that it was an attempt to see if you even knew their names.
You apparently dont.
Which again proves the fact that you next to nothing of the topics you bellyache about.
I recall the name Philip Rajkumar he wrote some book about the LCA. It is in all probability inherently biased. But by saying these names i think you are a regular in the BR forums which is a tech junkyard.
Wrong.
First you fail to grasp what I am syaing and then goes on with your jibe. Such a terible waste.
Nobody kneels before they walk. Its called crawl before you walk – and that is what I meant by your poorly phrased incoherent statements.
Never mind.
What ADA did was what they were asked to do.
They did that.
They have been asked to do more.
They will do that as well.
My taxmoney will fund it.
I am ok with that.
“Mid twenties” (cough, cough) “adults” in other nations might feel upset.
Thats fine.
It doesnt matter.
Insults aside you are not the only one who pays Tax money in India. 🙂
Second – India didnt have the time to follow the Chinese approach since it lost out on the mid 70’s to 80’s. Which is why the LCA went for the high risk approach.
You would have known this if you knew anything about the LCA. But you dont.
Reply With Quote
I don’t want to know about LCA after reading biased writeups of Indian fanboys which use it to project their national pride. I will take pride in it when it is actually doing things it claim.
ante_climaxLCA MK1- revised – include a more advanced avionics fit, OBOGs Mk1 and IFR. Main weight gains include a redesigned wing intended to carry heavier weaponry – and no, its not just the R73E issue.
You don’t fool anyone by saying all the LCA variants from the TDs to LSPs have all this tosh installed. And all of them are overweight. Since MK1 vanilla is overweight and above the limit, and under powered. Not becuase of added IAF requirements and fancy new stuff as you put it.
ante_climaxI appreciate its a difficult concept for you, but since you will one day be an adult, I think you should start on that path.
Again what trash including personal insult. I am nearing mid twenties and is a research student. I have voted in several elections. Please don;t use your stereotypical **** on me.
No you do not deserve to be taken seriously.
Civilians dont lord it over the military. If that is the sum total of your understanding, I pity your education and your thought process. The civilian military leadership is one of mutual need, respect and identified lines of responsibility.
Cevilians control the military in a democracy. It is my understanding. You have an aleternate viewe so be it. And as for spieling mishtokes I type so fast I hardly care to correct them. The rest of the insults are ignored as you are continuing to show who is the child here.
Of course they were, and I already told you of the sources.
You claimed, no links nothing. Just like I did earlier and i refuse to believe you.
You need to brush up on your reading comprehension and not interpret facts selectively to buttress your flawed opinions.
Here it is in simple english for you.
The IAF wants LCA with a certain set of systems. These make it overweight and make the present engine insufficient.
The IAF is willing to accept the LCA with these systems and the underpowered engine in two squadrons.
The IAF has ALSO committed to a MK2 variant with more developed systems and a newer engine.
Simple enough for you?
As always insults are ignored.
Now let me put my comments simpler so that a simpleton like you can understand.
The LCA that was first designed was not supposed to have the bells and jingle jangles that the IAF currently want.
This LCA is the LCA MK1.
It is still overweight without the jingle dangle capability IAF wants in the MK2. It is still under powered (the MK1) and that is before flying with a radar.
Now the MK2 that the IAF want may turn out to be pretty decent, but as of now there is no MK2
Since the MK1 LCA is a vanilla model which was built to original requirements, it being overweight cannot be blamed on changing IAF requirements.
And if not for composites the IAF would have to look for a much more powerful powerplant.
What ADA basically did was to run before they walked. And they are paying the price.
Look at the Chinese, slow progression from tested and perfected designs (which does their job) to complex ones, rather than jumping generations.
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