sorry for the crap part, it was in a general way, I should avoid generalization after quoting someone.

For the other plane, the EF as well has lost every competition he was in.

It did win orders for Saudi, not sure they had a competition for that. The Rafael is likely to win the UAE deal, then again there won’t be competition there.

Yes, but because of the logistical costs of going for another option, we went for it anyway.

Its like a cycle in our case which most Indian forumers here don’t understand.

We have lotta Russian stuff >>>>>>> New Russian Stuff is costly >>>>>>>>> Goes for it anway because of logistical issues>>>>>>>>>> even more Russian stuff now >>>>>>>>>> Russians increase price again >>>>>>>>>>>> No choice because most of the fleet is Russian >>>>> goes for it anyway >>>> and so and so.

We need to break free from this over reliance.

LCA or Arjun anyone? It’s probably safe to say any timetable India has… multiply it by ten… at least. The Russians aren’t the only problem.

It happens when its your first full indigenous aviation design. While some countries we know would rather copy what others have done and make it their own.

Arjun is a very capable platform not ordered in numbers because of the Army’s foriegn bias.

Will any Rafales be coming to India ? For Aero India 2009 ? Feb 11-15

You mean like giving someone one of your best carriers, your best fighter, and some of your best SAMs? And that someone happens to be your nextdoor neighbor with a proven track record of copying and selling everything they can buy or steal? Russia hasn’t exactly covered itself with glory when it comes to being smart about who they give what to.

During the soviet times, after the sale of Mig 21s they were reluctant to sell more stuff to the Chinese. But after the Cold war, when many of its traditional suppliers went for Western Aircraft, and when the defense industry needed more money they had no option but to sell to China and others.

The Su 27/30 sold to China were no where close in capability compared to the ones sold to trusted allies like India. And the Su 27/30 is hardly a game changer. it can be countered with other 4th gen aircraft. The PAK FA if its anything like the Raptor, will be big leap in air superiority over the Su 27. I do not think China or countries with an iffy record will be offered that.

From a strategic point of view it would be reasonable for Russia to reveal the T-50 as late as possible, ideally after the production of F-22 has been terminated and tooling scrapped. Now, imagine Russians coming with a fighter of Raptor class, freely available to anyone, even states like Libya and Americans having nothing better than F-35 to offer for their allies to counter it. That could be a real problem..

I do not think the Russians will proliferate 5th gen aircraft like they are doing fourth gen aircraft. India, Brazil, Malaysia etc. may be. I don’t think the likes of Libya will be getting the PAK-FA.

Chances are that the export models may be different from the real thing :). I know history supports your claim but it would hardly make sense to give everyone something if its going to a be a game changer like Raptor.

no new engines. and looking at the prices that India has been paying for the C-130J and P-8Is, I don’t think that any US sourced system is cheap as far as sales to India are concerned- they include first time set up of infrastructure costs, training, etc. and in hte case of a fighter, extensive logistical setup..the only plus point is that they go through very quickly with no middle men involved.

Again like I said. smaller numbers = higher per unit price.

By this arguement only the MIG 35 has a chance. As only that has the current infrastructure setup. 🙂

And Ankush it was Coldfire who gave me the links…so thank him not me 🙂

The simple fact is if India does not act counter to US strategic interest they will be helped far more than if they went elsewhere. Don’t kid yourself, if India or any nation acted counter to the Europeans or Russians strategic interest the Russians and Europeans would do anything they could to thwart India as well. It’s a simple principle. True friends are those that share common interests and you don’t screw your friends.

Now the only place where India may do that is with regards to Pakistan. India will probably attack targets inside Pakistan incase of another terrorist attack from its soil, especially if that happens now or within the next few years. In a decade or so America will have to choose, who its friend is in the long-term, India or Pakistan. She probably cannot have both, unless situation in Pakistan improves. 🙂

I remember reading that locally assembled Hawks cost $18 million compared with UK assembled Hawks costing $24 million. I think I read it in Flight online or something similar.

Yes its 20 % cheaper according to the link given by Coldfire. Google does a bad job at indexing defense news :confused: