OK…then what was this Czech general “ill-informed” about?

his boastful claim that bekaa valley debacle led to the downfall of the USSR

The author did not use the word “latest”. She said “top”…and in the context of the article, the systems referred to were “tops” in the Soviet arsenal for that time, although not the latest

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mig-23MS and mig-21MF were not the latest soviet equipment of the mid 80s

The head of the air force who played a significant role in the outcome of the conflict will suffice for now. Perhaps not 100% objective…but whom else to listen to? The folks who designed, built, and trained the operators of those systems that were so completely blown away?

it should be a combination of both, plus there is no description of how the soviet equipment was “top” at the time or how it contributed to the syrians defaet rather than syrians tactics

“Ill-informed”?

Is that your opinion or do you have a source for that?

do we know who this czech general is that is the question

You continue to defend Soviet equipment and systems. The article was not a criticism of the Soviets…it told the story of how the Israeli lessons learned from the 1973 war were put to good use in 1982.

if it was just that then I wouldnt have criticized it

“But perhaps the most important lesson from the Bekaa Valley is not to try to infer too many lessons. There are many factors that make the Lebanon War in general and the Bekaa Valley battle in particular of limited relevance to the US military.”

LOL!! The cadet’s article was written in 1989. I wonder how he felt about that statement two years later when the US followed a similar game plan in Desert Storm.

But, to answer your question…no, I don’t disagree with his first two conclusions…they weren’t new conclusions in 1989, 1979, 1969, or even 2010

so ur saying that desert storm replicated the conditions of a NATO-WP conflict ? based on what ?
iraq whose airforce had a tough time against the outnumbered iranians ranged against it the mightest airforces in the world
a classic case of wartime propoganda exaggerating the threat from the enemy to make your own victory seem so glorious
british did the same with bismarck oh God what a super battleship ! unsinkable ! a sea leviathan ! when in reality it was based on the Baden class 20yr old design and brits had far more modern ships with 16 ” guns chasing after it.
Similarly what was so great about the iraqi airforce ? at best it had 25 mig-29 ( which is a point defence interceptor without GC) that too downgraded versions , 25 mig-25s and 40 or so Mirage F1 fighter versions ( which isnt soviet anyway ) the rest of the planes were a odd collection of early and some late model mig-21/23/su-22.Saudis alone had 60 F-15s and 20 tornado F-1s, not counting any western airforces.

if it was saudi AF vs iraqi then we have a more equal fight

Any books written by pilots that are factual accounts should be good. Ideally not to technical – although thats not always easy to disern.

Clancy was never in the military AFAIK and his stories are for fictional entertainment value to people with limited interest in the subject.

Some books – like the Osprey ones and Yefim Gordons are very technical and are not easy reading unless you get excited by things like: why AIM-4Ds were rubbish etc.
The biogs seem to be easier reads – One book that is not a biog but quite a nice read is Sea harrier over the Falklands by Nigel Ward (801 NAS commander). He explains quite a lot about the war and his sorties etc (from his point of view) – but his character makes it all very interesting.

For vids check out the Dogfights series on History channel (most are on youTube now). Although the narration is a bit off they are still enactments of actual engagements.

If you are after actual ACT and BFM manuals there are some on the web – just a case of finding them – check old threads at combat flight sim sites – you have to try and learn the same things in those 🙂

I do like Yefim gordon and osprey books a lot and have most for the relevent time period.I also like World airpower journal series, other authors I refer to are Bill Gunston, Jon Lake , steven zaloga and Anthony thornborough.Tom Cooper is also a great modern source esp his online discussion forum gives a wealth of information.Many other sources are all in russian unfortunately.
I would keep an eye out for these manuals thanks !

So nastle have you found anything useful yet regarding your original question

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yes thanks some replies were useful

Are you looking for something to help you in a flight sim – or was it general curiosity?

just general curosity, I was always fascinated with 80s aircombat and the ultimate form of it was NATO-WP

You might have concluded by now that combat greater than 1v1 in this period even on a training ground involves a lot of dynamic variables – there is no easy answer. Many pilots and training institutions spent many man hours looking at and coming up with ways to beat opponents – but these tactics would have to change and adapt as technology available to both sides improved

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Indeed.
But its a comforting thought and it makes you realize how wrong most pundits of aircombat ala tom clancy could be wrong.Esp certain “analyist” who attempted to draw some ridiculous conclusions from the middle east and south asian conflicts regarding any future NATO-WP engagement

Would you recommend any good sources about 80s era air combat ?

The problem is that every encounter with a MiG-25 bar 1 in 1991 results in a MiG-25 humiliation – but thats to be expected it was never designed to take on fighters and was totally outclassed it seems by the avionics and airframes of the the F-14/15 in every way.

I have no doubt that the F-14/AIM-54 combination was vastly superior to the Mig-25 in range, agility and quality of AAMs.But the other incidents mentioned are usually 1 vs 1 or 2 vs 2 combats, here the Mig-25 will definately be at a disadvantage.In larger regiment sized formations how do you think F-4/F-16/F-15s would have handled Mig-25PD/PDS so easily ?

but in 1 vs 1 , 2 vs 2 combats that might still be possible, but when dozens of aircraft are involved in intricately planned operations is it practical to have such classic dogfights ?

^ compared to lower altitudes

i am not saying its highly manuverable at all

Just to put a few things in perspective:

1. MiG-31 versus F-15A: The MiG-31 has a clear advantage at long ranges.
2. At medium ranges, the odds are largely similar: The R33 has a better punch, but the F-15 retains a better ability to dodge a missile.
3. At short ranges, even at supersonic speeds (M<2) the MiG-31 is meat if it accepts a fight (instead – much smarter – use its superior acceleration at high Mach to simply run).

Versus the F-14A, the odds are even at long ranges. The MiG-31 might win a few miles missile range by flying faster and higher, but the F-14 could escape the engagement zone. Additionally, the ARH-final guidance of the AIM54 allows the F-14 to fire and then turn away. Of course, that increases the chance that the AIM54 misses as mid-course guidance is lost.
At medium and short ranges the F-14 is superior.

If multiple aircraft are involved (likely) or any side has AWACS or ground-based radar available, the whole situation is pretty much unpredictable. I would credit the MiG-31 some advantages as the superior supersonic range can be used for tactical maneuvers. However, this always increases the chance of close distance encounters, which – as said – is not a good playground for a 40t fighter.

Finally:
The MiG-31 is a very good design for its mission, but it is not a good value-for-money contender for a fight against fast fighters.

Thanks Schorsch for a balanced post !

May I add another thing, if the F-15 has to dodge one R-33 at a time it would likely be successful 100% of the time, however if it has to dodge 4 missles at a time the chances of a hit increases considrably.The ECM and Radar power of the 2 fighters also has to be compared as most likely the engagements would be BVR.
In this scenario I did not mean to suggest that the Mig-31 will prevail everytime far from it, my personal $ 0.02 is that most of these engagements will likely be inconclusive since both are high performing fighters but Mig-31s in the pre-AIM-120 era can seriously disrupt offensive and defensive operations by AIM-7 equipped F-15A/C if the MiGs are available in sufficent numbers since they can engage and disengage at will and will prove very hard to shoot down.