Then it’s a live munitions. No doubt.
and the Radar is of course designated as N001. The problem so far was that the reliability was low. Only later at 1990’s it brought to acceptable 200hr.
forgive my ignorance but do u mean by “acceptable 200 hr” ?
Seriously??
There is your problem right there.
ok i do not have access to russian langauge docs , that is why im asking you guys here
what is your take on it ? su27 had a radar and BVR missiles that worked during the 1986-1990 period ?
Yes. where did you read that O-o ?
Remember Vasily Tsymbal vs P-3 incident ? His Su-27 carries full complement of AAM’s
in the pic on the website there are no dummy stripes on the R-27
and this video is from before 1990 ?
what was this radar called in the 86-90 period , still called N001 ?
So seems like it was functional but all the bugs just have not been worked out , is that accurate ?
Yes. where did you read that O-o ?
Remember Vasily Tsymbal vs P-3 incident ? His Su-27 carries full complement of AAM’s
it was a while back on f-16.net forum
yes I do they were saying ( on f-16.net) these were dummy missiles
yefim gordon book on su-27 says nothing about it ,
did the flankers do any missile trials with R-27R during the 86-90 period ?
The answer is yes. VVS/VKS Used a radar they haven’t certified for until 1990’s. and yes it comes by default with R-27R and RE. and it also have datalink too.
thanks for replying
what ! so su-27 in 1986-1990 period had a radar and was capable of using SARH missiles ?
but Ive read on other forums that su-27 had the same air to air capability as a F-16A armed with IR homing missiles only and could not use any SARH missiles till 1990
Turkey never used AIM-7 with F-16’s and I doubt any version in TurAF inventory was AIM-7 capable.
Not even the BLK 40 versions ?
Before the ’80s, very few fighters carried chaff dispensers, much less internal ECM. I believe F-15 had internal jammer from the start, but chaff dispensers were added only later. For the most part, fighter aircraft in both East and West had no protection against radar-guided missiles except their own maneuverability and performance.
Thanks
but as far as I know in the 80s the mig-29 9.12 were fitted with chaff dispensers from the start , is that true ?
Peace Onyx I f-16 Block 40’s of the Turkish Aircraft were AIM-7 Sparrow capable: http://www.f-16.net/f-16_users_article21.html
So per article the block 40 versions were manufactured starting with the 44th aircraft so it’s safe to assume that the versions manufactured Before that i.e 1 to 43 were not block 40 and hence not compatible to carry aim 7 sparrow?
SORRY to dig up this old thread
but did the TURKISH F-16 in the late 1980s and 1990 have AIM-7 capability before AIM-120 was delievered to the turk f-16 ?
Tactical platforms for delivering tactical nukes
reading the soviet plan for war in western europe you posted it seems like that the liberal use of IRBM and cruise missiles on both sides made any advantage in conventional fighter superority almost baseless
we worry so much about the mig-29/su27 vs f-16/18/15 matchup but in reality any war before the IRBM treaty i.e before 1988 was almostly certainly use tactical nukes and in that case it is all about IRBM and tactical nukes
there would be no time for the fighters to play red baron
sintra thanks a lot that site is a goldmine
I did find some OOB in yefim gordon’s book on PVO and VVS
A) The first VVS SU-27´s were delivered in 1985 to the 831st GvIAP, Mirgorod, Ukraine
B) The VVS 787th Tactical Fighter Air Regiment, Finow, Germany was equiped with the MiG-25PD Foxbat-E interceptor
thanks a lot
where can I get more accurate figures about the number of mig-29/su-27/mig-31 with vvs and pvo in the 80s ?
any suggestions ?
The job to square off with NATO over Europe (and dealing with AWACS) was for the VVS, by late eighties, that meant huge numbers of mig23’s, several hundred mig29’s, a few units of mig25’s and a handful of Su27 ‘s(a great big chunk of the first batches of Flankers were delivered to the PVO).
talking numbers I like it
per 1988 military balance
VVS has 450 mig-29 , 700 mig-23MF/ML no mig-25 and no su-27
PVO has 100 + mig-31 , 150 su-27 400 mig-25 A/E and 600 mig-23P
does that sound about right ?
Of the several AAM’s described by several posters in this topic only the R33 was available and only for the PVO.
what about R-40 ? has decent range at high altitude
The only anti radiation missile available for tactical work by the Soviet forces was the KH31P, it had no ATA mode, is target were the massive numbers of Hawk, Patriots, Bloodhounds, etc, NATO units, it only entered in 1988, a few months before the Berlin wall came crashing down.
ARH was carried by Tu-22 and Tu-16 of strategic aviation not sure if it would work in A2A mode
From what’s publicly available, for the most of the Cold War, the Soviet plan to deal with NATO air forces over central Europe (and the Awac force) seemed to be a variation of what DJCross described above, but instead of using mortars they would go directly to tactical nukes, what remained (if anything) would be swarmed and dealt by superior numbers.
Although quantitatively USSR was outnumbered by atleast 2 to 1 in OVERALL numbers by NATO in aircraft
They had the quantitative edge only in 3rd gen fighters by mid 80s , approx 1800 mig-23Mf/ML ( pvo + vvs)+ 400 Mig -25 vs 400 + F-16 ( early versions ) and 800 + F-4s of NATO
but then NATO has a 4 to 1 edge in 4th gen fighters
and NATO has hundreds of mirage 5/f-104/F-5 which are quite superior to limited numbers of Mig-21 available to VVS , even if we count the su-15 of pvo NATO still has the numeric advantage