Found this: http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/blogs/defense/index.jsp?plckController=Blog&plckScript=blogScript&plckElementId=blogDest&plckBlogPage=BlogViewPost&plckPostId=Blog%3a27ec4a53-dcc8-42d0-bd3a-01329aef79a7Post%3a710a5216-59db-44d3-86ef-9aa5cfecfd90It seems that the desired range is 100 Nmiles.

A lot of that had to do with the radars being shut off while the ARMs were in flight. New model HARMs have a much improved ability to maintain the emitter’s location in their guidance system and greatly increase the chances of striking a target that has ceased to emit RF energy. Besides, in the SEAD world, every single HARM fired that caused the radar to switch off was a successful shot even if the radar survived as it negated that radar’s ability to do its job. The press and the armchair analysts seem to forget that when they bring Kosovo up in what appears to be an attempt to make the NATO air arm look inept.

That’s exactly what I said, that the HARM still did their job by forcing the Serbs to turn-off the radars. I just wanted to point to Zare that shoting an AWACS from 300 km is, to put it politely, a verv, very, very difficult job.

Actually NO

Both Eurofighter GMBH and, specially, Dassault have claimed that they have that capability for years.
Has a matter of fact there´s a very big text in the Greek “Diplomacy and Defense” (or something like that) of an exercise in 2006 in wich the Greek pilots flying Block50+ Viper´s mentioned, several times, that the Rafales M were picking AND TARGETING them on a RWR passive mode using Spectra. One of them (HAF pilot) mentioned a detection range of 200 km´s…
The RAFALE has been fielding a very precise RWR in the air to air mode for several years, and i would be very, very cautious in claiming any superiority of the ALR 67 (V)4 over the European systems…

Cheers

Actually NO:) I didn’t say that the Rafale Spectra (not so shure about the DASS in its present configuration) can’t measure range; however, it’s not the RWR that would do that, but the ESM, so no matter how precise the RWR on Rafale is, it still can’t do the range. Only if Spectra has an ESM, it will be able to do it.

What i’ve questioned was the Su 35 being able to measure range, considering that outside EW planes, there are few fighters that can doi that.

@sferrin, Su-35 can shoot AWACS down without radiating a single beam.

L-175M will pick up AWACS’ signal and that data is all it’s needed for R-172’s launch authorization. R-172 features it’s own multimode seekerhead, and one of those modes is PR mode. While R-172’s small antenna won’t pick up the radiation from 300 km away, it will eventually. Until then, it’s going on inertia, thus no datalink, completely passive.

Midcourse updates and command correction are not really needed. AWACS ain’t going anywhere.

Upon positive lock with the PR seekerhead, AWACS is…basically dead. If those F-22’s are in front of it, let’s say 150 km, they are still 100 km short from engaging the Su-35 with AMRAAM. If they visually detected the incoming Novator (it’s a pretty bulky missile!) AWACS may try shutting down the radar system.

But again, it won’t do much. Upon signal loss, R-172 will just switch to AR guidance, and point to the last known location. The xxx sqm AWACS won’t be a hard target to lock from 100 km with AR.

In any case, letting Su-35 come at 300 km from the AWACS is a suicide.

You all seem to forget the AIM-120C-7 range. F-22 will be long detected by Irbis, before he gets L.A. with the AMRAAM. That is going to change with the -120D, but we’re not there yet (nor we are with the Su-35, but it will be a gap, VVS will get first types before USAF gets -120D).

Regarding plasma stealth, it’s not the cloud all over the plane, for god sakes. It’s layering the radome, from inside. It’s only purpose is to cover the radar antenna, and since the radome is radiotransparent, there’s no need to put the plasma layer outside to have direct contact with air. 🙂

This is what i call almost religious fate!

But (and I asked this question many times on that forum) do you know that in Kossovo, US and allies fired hundreds oh anti radiation missiles (HARM, ALARM) on Serb radars. These missiles were fired against ground, imobile targets, from above at distances of around 40-50 km. Still, less than 10 % hit their targets!

However, according to some naive guys that give the Russian SciFi brochures 100 % credit, there is no doubt that a “mighty” 172 will have no problems in finding, tracking and destroying an AWACS flying at 900 km/h from 300 km !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No on a more serious note:

A Su 35 won’t be able to find the range to an AWACS; no doubt the bearing would be easy to find; however, finding range requires some more sophisticated gear, found on a few EW planes (EA 6, F 18G, F 16 CJ with HTS) I don’t doubt that Russain dedicated EW planes have the same capability, but not a fighter like Su 35.

Midcourse updates and command correction are not really needed. AWACS ain’t going anywhere.

:diablo: yes, it going to wait for the Russian missile:p

That is going to change with the -120D, but we’re not there yet (nor we are with the Su-35, but it will be a gap, VVS will get first types before USAF gets -120D).

wrong again; the first rounds from the Initial Operational capability has already been delivered, as anyone can see on Raytheon (the manufacturer) site http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/micro_stories.pl?ACCT=149999&TICK=RTN&STORY=/www/story/10-06-2006/0004446872&EDATE=Oct+6,+2006

This contract supplements the Lot 20A effort awarded in February 2006
and, in addition to funding AIM-120C7 missiles, it also includes the first
production deliveries of AIM-120D missiles from December 2007 through
January 2009.

You all seem to forget the AIM-120C-7 range. F-22 will be long detected by Irbis, before he gets L.A. with the AMRAAM

Do you really believe that a Su 35 will be able to track a F 22 from 70 km????

You know, considering how much money the USAF is paying per plane for that darn thing, it honestly wouldn’t surprise me if it could.

Forget this crap; the flyaway price is about the same for both planes…

I have been off this thread for a moment and now I cannot believe my eyes. During the Cold War times Russians were said to be able to blow up the entire planet 5 times (or is it just 2-3 times now?), but judging by the reponses here it looks like smashing one US aircraft carrier is still an unreachable task for them. 😉

Weird….

With nuclear missiles, no one can argue; with convetional ones…that’s diffcult

I don’t know; but noway half the range of the R 77…

Put AN/SPY-1D of the last baselines (that’s a PESA one!) against any “stealth” blub…

If it flies it dies :diablo:

Yeah, but it would require 4 MW of power. A little heavy to move it from a burke destroyer to a Su 35 :diablo:

Well, erm, Star that appears to be a newspaper clipping dated some 7 years ago that repeats the advertising material thats been around for a while. It actually, IIRC, predates the ESSM/Vandal testing.

So….since that newspaper piece we find that supersonic skimming is really not the invulnerable attack profile it was advertised as being. We also find that, to get its 300km range, Onyx must fly an altitude cruise phase exposing it nice, early, detection by its target vessel. In otherwords, since your advertising piece from Itar-Tass was published, we find that Onyx is not as impressive as we were led to believe.

If you can Star just be objective for a few minutes and tell me you can see the difference between the report of the official testing of a weapon system in a representative threat environment and a newspaper piece that, pretty much, regurgitates the manufacturers advertising?.

You can add a other problem with supersonic ASMs; in the final phase, considering that they would escape the Standards and the ESSMs, they travel low; the result of traveling with high speed through high desity air is that they became red-hot (actually in night they are visible without IR equipment!) For the guiding system of the RAM system (Ku radar + FLIR) that a meaty target to direct the Sidewinder-derived missile…