As usual, you are twisting my words.

Hahahahaha… that is very funny. I am guessing you have never actually been in a plane before. 9gs hurts. G suits don’t make it feel good. They stop you blacking out by forcing more blood away from your legs and into your head to keep you conscious.

Pulling continuous 9gs can kill you. Keeping blood in your brain is one thing, but you are only staying awake, you are not operating normally and you certainly are not in a position engage in combat.

Where i ever said that pulling Gs is funny? Incidentally I tooke a ride in centrifuge and i can tell you that it was one of the most unplesant experience (4-5G).

However, Chrom said:

NO PILOT EVER can sustain even 5G more than few seconds long

which is obsiouly wrong. Also, the new suites are actually allowing pilots (i.e. highly trained individuals, not me 🙂 ) to sustain 9G more conforably, not “Pulling continuous 9gs”. Here are two links: http://www.codeonemagazine.com/archives/2004/articles/oct_04/fa22Support/index.html; http://www.autofluglibelle.com/html/libelle.html:

“

LIBELLE really gives you the feeling of being in control at sustained high g-levels. Only two to three days of training allowed our test pilots to use LIBELLE to its full extent which means high g-loads at much lower workload. Seeing somebody pull 9g for 25 seconds without obvious fatigue looked quite impressive. In more realistic scenarios the g-protection of LIBELLE will also mean longer pilot endurance and higher awareness under g.”

Major Michael Los, Flight Surgeon of the Royal Netherlands Air Force, after his first runs with LIBELLE in the centrifuge up to 9 g

Interesting you know such things as facts. Could you enlighten the rest of the board as to what other operational missiles the Russians are currently using?
Also if it is a paper project then why are they bothering to design an R-37M for their next gen fighter?
BTW a paper project never gets to wind tunnel stage, let alone flight testing stage. The fact that the weapon has gotten to the point where it could be made operational puts it in a better postion than the F-35 is at the moment.

no need to ne ironical. Let me ask you if you have a source confirmoing that the R 37/R37M is operational.

And of course, R 37 was not a paper project stricto sensu because there were firing trials.

Heh, i could point out what if R-33 is not usefull against 9G target, then Phoenix is even less usefull then that. But realisticaly speaking, NO PILOT EVER can sustain even 5G more than few seconds long. .

What? A fighter pilot is supposed to sustain 9 G with G-suit and ~ 6 G without it, just to be admited in basic school. New G suites, like the German Libelle for the EF 2000 or the Combat Edge/ATAGs for F 22 allows even to support 9G without discomfort.

Good luck for them to spot that closing missile visually and start that hard manuevering in right time. Remember, R-33 is NOT ARH, its SARH. So enemy pilot would not know how close missile is – at most, he could suspect what an missile was fired when he is locked by enemy radar.

And who told you that a pilot must visually spoting a missile to start evasing maneuvers? The RWR will anounce that a SARH missle is fired, immediately as the CW illumination started. While with a missile designed to shot down fighters (R 27) an evasive maneuver would not guarantee the escape, with a missile designed for slow maneuvring target fired from a non-maneuvrable aircraft, even a small change in course will result in a miss.

Either way, i think you wouldnt deny what in mid-80x there was a time when a very limited number of F-15A and latest versions of F-4’s with AIM-7 was faced a hordes of Mig-23, Mig-25,Mig-29, Mig-31, Su-27 fighters – all with BVR weapons and albeit limited (but who had it better then?) but still very usefull datalink in EACH regiment.

Again, I suggest a google before posting. If so, you would have knew that the F 15A was operational in 1974 and in “mid-80x” all 360 of them were delivered. The improved F 15C was operational in 1982 and some 400 have beed delivered by 1988. As for the “hordes” of Soviet fighters, they were indeed, but the only fighters capable of challenging with some succes the F 15 (Su 27-operational in 1984 and MiG 29-operational in 1983) were deployed in small numbers in “mid-80x”. As well as the R27 (operational in 1985)

As for datalink… I dont know what you are understanding under “datalink”. Sure, F-15 and F-16 had not it before 90x – at least, not in meaningfull numbers. And even then, no intra-flight buddy-buddy datalinks.

MIDS terminals, mounted practically on every front-line US fighter do offer IFDL function.

Russian fighters, aside from Mig-31, didnt had this capabilty either. Russian mid-80x datalink which was deployed in nearly all frontline units was, undoubtly, most advanced of its time in widespread use – of course, we can laught at this “advanced” from current point of view.

Only the MiG 31 and Su 27 had “advanced” datalink

Sweden Grippen… ya, good plane. But without CGI infrastructure and AWACS support what USSR and USA enjoyed it was more a experemental thing than a real service

The IFDL I was talking about (the first of its kind in the world) was on Viggen not on Grippen. And by the way, what do you mean by Grippen being experimental? Grippen is already in significant numbers in Swedish, S-African, Hungarian and Czech AFs. Also, the Swedes do have their own AWACS-Erieye.

They now have R-37s with ARH if that is such an issue. (For the PAK-FA they are working on the R-77M and R-37M for internal carriage… which suggests that R-77 and R-37 must be considered successful and worth continuing with.

No, they don’t have the R 37. The program is over, without a single missile going operational. As for paper projects, I repeat, the Russians are world champions…

It is intended for use against bombers and cruise missiles of course, but it can kill a target capable of 9gs if it is carrying a full load of weapons and is not able to manouver at 9gs. Making a target dump weapons is a mission kill.

An F 15 can do 9G with all its 8 A-A missiles. The only things they would have to drop are the external fuel tanks.

Guys, again, go to http://www.patricksaviation.com/avi…t_Demonstration . you will see what slow speed manevrability means…

Franc, the SH can do the Cobra, the 360 deg. turn, etc at least as spectacular as the Su.

So the west squandered money on the Python 5, ASRAAM, AIM-9X, IRIS-T, and how many other IR WVR missiles, plus HMS to get something comparable into operation as quickly as possible because? In the mean time they accepted they were inferior to the R-73 and used AMRAAMs whenever they could when engaging targets that might be carrying R-73s.

The missile the West had before the P4/5, AIM 9X, etc were clearly inferior to the R 73; however, even if today US has a better WVR missile than the R 73, they will still try to fight BVR. Why? because they are better than any AFs in this field.

Iran-Iraq

Recorded use of BVR weapons by:

MiG-25P/PDS
MiG-23ML
MiG-29

Yes, but any info about BVR kills by using non-US missiles?

The US is hated because it is the oppressor. It says stuff like freedom and democracy but is only interested in maintaining its own financial, economic, political, military position. It talks about globalism, but thinks that means everyone being like them.

Giving x amount of aid does not give you the right to claim you are good. Comparing the amounts given by others with your own and claiming superiority based on that is actually quite offensive. The US gives generously, but there are strings attached. India refused aid because it wanted to look after its own, but the US jumped at the chance to send lots of aide to Muslim Indonesia and expected brownie points for that, despite their war on Muslims disguised as a war on terror. (or should I say it is a war on Muslim terrorists rather than a war against all terrorism).

The thread is not “who tells the most funny joke”…

The Ans could be leased to carry aid from various countires or organizations(UN agencies ususally do).

And Sferrin is right, without the dozens of US Navy helicopters, the death toll would have been higher. They get wounded and sick off and medicins and food in.