Overall I am not saying Iran will win an airwar – after 2 weeks their airforce would be all but vanquished. but if you see ppl like danrh and Schorch, they’d go to any extent to prove that the Iranian airforce equates with the Iraqi airforce, plain silly if you ask me.

-During the Iran-Iraq war, both AFs did not show any spectacular performances and neither one could claim victory in the air;
-In 1991 USAF/USN smashed Iraqi AF in a couple of days;we can assume that US was able to do the same to IRIAF, if the war had been againt Iran;
-From that period until now there was no major improvement in IRIAF inventory (except the famous twin-tail F 5); there are any double digit SAMs and only some Russian small range systems were recently been aquired, but probably not yet operational

However, look at it this way – with the awacs hardened hornets and (even, which I am not claiming in my case, F-15s present), an Iraqi MiG-25 was able to shoot down a hornet.

The F 18 lost to the MiG was not “awacs hardened”! Because USAF and USN planes were not (then) able to “talk”, the USAF AWACS in the area was not able to warn the USN F 18 of the incoming MiG. Nowadays is totally different; USAF and USN fighters, AWACS, Hawkeyes, RC 135s, tankers, are datalinked in a common network to an extent that other AFs can only dream.

Another thing is to watch about what is being said. People who are persuaded about supremacy of their product are not afraid to talk about possible problems or limitations because they know that even these figures will be impressive anyway. But look at official reports about the Raptor – absolutely strictly positive and praising from all sides, the thing is simply unbeatable, perfect. My experienced nose says to me that something stinks here, buddy.. And when I once become suspicious, I usually filter every information I get. Just like in the case of F-22A.

While I agree that USAF & LM tend to show the best part of the Raptor, I don’t think that the plane is far from what is advertised.

First, they didn’t hide the problems encountered during the development. The software integration, for once, delayed the IOC with some years. If they had tried to hide it, they would stick to the schedule.

OTOH, a plane that required 40 billion in R&D must be a revolutionary one, unless the Americans are complete morons or LM the biggest thief in the world.

Also, I don’t think that the USAF pilots are just reading add pamphlets edited by LM. You should consider that, unlike F 16 community (that enjoy a younger fleet) the mean age of F 15 is 18 years. That’s pretty old. It is just normal for any pilot to be thrilled when being among the first to fly a new plane (F 15, the last front line fighter was introduced in mid ’70)

About the IR suppression, there is a lot of folklore on the net: the “topcoat” the allegedly shift the IR radiation to a frequency that is harder to detect, the cooling of the hottest part using fuel, and so on. In fact, I believe that measures had been taken to reduce the IR signature, but probably those measures are far from what has been discussed.

Also, you should consider that even if they produced one of the best IRST in the world (the AN/AAS 42 of the F 14D) the Americans didn’t think that it could be the primary targeting device. May be they know better.

Besides, did you heard of any shooting down using an IRST, anywhere in the world?

Generally a FLIR has a norrower field of view and works on a different wavelenght. Also, an IRST has dedicated software to track the target, so you have a targeting solutions.

OTOH, the latest targeting pods (Sniper, Litening, ATFLIR) that are basically a FLIR, can perform IRST functions, but only because they have dedicated software.

What exactly does it mean *passed the tests?*

Just that. The F 22 was considered battle ready. I don’t know if the test were doctored or not.

Tsk, tsk, tsk.. He is not talking about AIM-9, my friend. He is talking about IR-guided MICA or R-27ET.. Slightly different ranges…

On the contrary my friend, I think he was specifically speaking about WVR missiles (R 73s, Sidewinders, Pythons, whatever) Because it is true that MICA has a comparable (a little less compared with AMRAAM, though) range, but it is the IR version af a RF missile. As for R 27 ET, its range is actually bigger than the range of AMRAAM.

On the other hand…since when does the RWR gear on an Eagle not scream and yell when an active AAM is locked on? This would seem to be more of a testament to the F-15s apparent inability to outmaneuver an AIM-120 than anything else.

Not necessarily. If the tracking is highly accurate, you can delay the moment when the AMRAAM radar becomes active. It would be too late for evasive maneuver, even if the Eagle RWR would detect the incoming missile.

A Eurofighter could do it, too.

? :confused: ? :confused: An EF to kill 5 Eagle once? :p

But if Raptor switches on his radar the others will at least have a clue what is happening. If they are supported by AWACS they could get some idea where the Raptors are (two RWR readings from two different directions give a rough position). If AWACS watches closely they can potentially detect it when it opens it weapons bay and warn their aircraft to get the hell out of there.

The Raptor can chose to:
1)use the LPI (discrete mode);
2)to get closer to the F15, but still outside the detection range of the F 15 and let the passive ALR 94 EW system to obtain a firing solution
3)receive data using the intraflight datalink from another raptor using its radar at full power

If AWACS watches closely they can potentially detect it when it opens it weapons bay and warn their aircraft to get the hell out of there.

By the time a raptor opens its bay, the Eagle (or whatever you want) is already in the NEZ of the AIM 120.

I would say that five experienced jocks in Eagles would chase off a Raptor like a wild pig without problems.

I don’t know how good were these f 15 pilots. But here is a quote from an f 16 pilot from 64th “Agressor” squadron from Nellis (that’s the best USAF has):

“We joke about our missions against the raptor because they can be fairly boring. We fly to the range. Die. Go to the tanker. Go back out. Die. Go back to the tanker. Go back out. Die a third time. Then we go home,” says Lt. Col. Paul Huffman, the commander of the 64th Aggressor Squadron at Nellis AFB, Nevada, who has flown as an adversary against the F/A-22 more than twenty times.

“If anyone has a view from an adversary’s perspective of what this airplane can do, it has to be us,” Huffman adds. “During Initial Operational Test and Evaluation last year, we rarely saw an F/A-22, let alone got a shot at one. From our perspective, the airplane certainly performed better than expected. The F/A-22 is transformational, no doubt about it.”

http://www.codeonemagazine.com/archives/2005/articles/jul_05/airspace/index.html

Only if the “other tvc equipped birds” (to quote you) has the ability to supercruise with full weapon load
Oh, I’ve forget. To quote you again: :diablo:

As a European (Although i was born and live in Australia) im bloody proud of the fact that the EU is producing its own BVM missile.

😀
“As a European” you should know by now that European BVR exist for some decades:Aspide, Skyflash, MICA. The problem is if the Europeans could make a missile as good, reliable and economical as US can.

How many air to air kills have F-16’s claimed for example?

Actually 72. By Israeli AF, USAF, Pakistani AF, Dutch AF (Kosovo 1999) against 0 loses…

I tend to agree with SOC and Phantom II. The JSF was designed with some targets, like exceeding the F 16 with at least 25 % in all areas: maneuvrability, acceleration, combat radius (actually in this field the improvement is something like 80 %!). Also the only true drawback of the F 16 ( 25 deg AoA) is resolved in the F 35 because of the upper intake area (that induces strong vortex) and double vertial tail.