Looks cool. It looks a bit like Sky-X don’t you think (the picture shows the Alenia Sky-X)?
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I didn’t know and don’t believe that the cuts in F35 and F22 improved the aircraft, they were budget cuts.
In my opinion, even if the Rafale doesn’t get sold more, I’m happy that the Armée de l’Air and the Aéronavale get a better plane. That’s why I think it is good news.
I think that should be the first and foremost thought of any Frenchmen/Brit etc… in regard to Rafale/Typhoon.
Well there are two aspects of an aircraft export:merit and politics, in politics, F35 and Typhoon will nearly always win so the only sensible thing to do is increase Rafales capability. So AESA is good news. I hope Typhoon will get AESA somtime soon, perhaps we should ask the Saudis if they want to fund it! 😀
I was under the impression that some time soon the UK wanted to buy replacements for the Puma/Sea King combo, probably EH101s and and even more Chinooks. :rolleyes:
A question regarding Storm Shadow/Scalp:
Is the production shared between UK/France, i.e. do British Storm Shadows have Frenchbuilt components and do French Sclaps have British built components? And what about the exports?
I wish the UK would get on board with AgustWestland Yeovil, after all the UK Chinooks will have to be replaced in the future.
I’d put Astute over Barracuda anyday. Actually Astute has very similar characteristics to the Virginia class.
Wasn’t Vosper Thornycroft involved in some frigate deal with Greece, has this died? :confused:
Emirates in $10bn shopping spree
By Sylvia Pfeifer (Filed: 20/11/2005)Emirates, Dubai’s flag-carrier airline, is set to place orders totalling more than $10bn (£5.8bn) at the country’s air show which starts today. The order will include more than 40 of Boeing’s wide-bodied 777s.
The airline is also believed to be ready to announce an order for as many as 50 Airbus A350s, the rival to Boeing’s fuel-efficient 787 “Dreamliner”. Emirates had been expected to announce the order at the Paris air show earlier this year but held off. Boeing has since tried to persuade Emirates to choose a stretched version of the 787 instead.
Emirates’ first Airbus A380, the world’s largest passenger jet
The Airbus A380, the world’s largest passenger jetExecutives close to the dicussions said last night that a final decision was finely balanced.
The bumper order from Emirates is part of the airline’s aggressive expansion plans. It is the launch customer for the Airbus A380, the world’s largest passenger jet. An A380 in Emirates livery took to the skies for the first time yesterday in Dubai ahead of the official opening of the air show.
Separately, China is today expectected to announce a deal with Boeing to buy 70 of the company’s 737 aircraft – the announcement is timed to coincide with US President George Bush’s visit to Beijing this week.
The US aerospace giant has secured 733 firm orders this year already, substantially more than the 272 orders it received last year.
You guys keep coming with numbers, to try to prove how much the British Aerospace industry have done….
Please show me evidence of the 1260 prototypes France built and flew between 1945 and 2005 as you claimed just that , otherwise once again you have been proven to be a liar.
Question WAS: When was the last time it produced a high performance/front line fighter on its own?
Answer: Sea Harrier. some time ago isn’t it?
Again this does not make any sense. Some do it on their own because they believe they need 50% of a programme and then everyone else gets pissed off by their stupid behaviour and some can collaborate with others, that doesn’t mean Britain couldn’t do it on their own. BTW nice that you mention it, VSTOL, a technology France never mastered by producing a series aircraft, not just some prototype which often crashed such as the Balzac.
Also note that the last one would be the BAE Sea Harrier FA2 first flown in 1988, so really it’s a bit younger than the Rafale, the last indigenous French high performance fighter. :dev2: (Note: The Sea Harrier FA2 had structural differences, also new avionics etc… and is considered by most an own new fighter) And even the Sea Harrier FRS1 would only be a few years older than the Rafale (first flights: 1978 versus 1986)
As for comparing the number of prototypes, we can argue with the number of home made as well, the point is HIGH performance isn’t going to be found in large number in the UK as the only companies which were able to design them are long gone and the only one still capable to a limited extand isn’t doing it for nearly twenty years.
Once again you are talking absolute bull****. The BAC TSR 2, FD 2, Panavia Tornado, BAe EAP, Eurofighter, Bristol 188, De Havilland Venom, Gloster Meteor, DH 108, English Electric Lightning etc…… are all “high performance” fighters/ prototypes, more to the point the UK also developed long range bombers (Valiant, Victor and Vulcan) something France lacks.
Rob L have a long history of bein inventing stuff to the extand that he believes the JAS 39 was designed by BAE as well as part of the F-35, overlooking the fact that the aircrafts were already designed and ignoring the fact that redesiging for production tooling is somethingh else, don’t waste your time with him, he already knows the the French Aerospace industry in Number two worldwhile. He likes ihs little figures you see. They all do apparently. Jealousy is creeping out.
Again you are plainly lying. What I said is that BAe had a part to play in the design of both Gripen (you actually conceded this point to me in a private e-mail) and F35 (for the F35 this is something Lockheed Martin, Northrop Grumman and BAE SYSTEMS ALL verify), I never said they designed a majority of those planes.
Did you remember the Fieldmaster, Islander, Trislander and Defender (I’m editing this post so can’t see…..)
I actually remembered the Britten Norman aeroplanes but didn’t include them, I’ll edit it. I’ve not included all of them, I think showing that the French produced more flown designs is already too hard for poor Fonk, and I’m not even rubbing it into him that he claimed that France had 10 times more prototypes (i.e. over 1260 prototypes!!!) 😀
@PilotTGHT:
http://www.cfm56.com/excel/graphics/pie9.gif
This image of yours is one hell of propaganda. First of all the CFM series is only to 50% SNECMA and secondly your image is not representing the whole bandwidth of engines. Also note that the propulsion business of SAFRAN (i.e. SNECMA has a turnover of 3 Billion Euros compared to about 6.5 billion Euros the Aerospace units (Civil and Defence engines) of Rolls-Royce do. Let’s see what Rolls-Royce has to say:

Altogether I come up to 126 UK prototypes/aircraft since WW2, so if you “PilotTGHT” or “Fonk” can provide evidence of 1260 French prototypes/aircraft since WW2, the claim by Fonk is true, if not your just plain pathetic liars. Note all of these aircraft have actually been built and flown, derivatives of Mirage, e.g. Mirage 2000-5, Mirage 2000C do not count as I didn’t include Tornado F3, GR4, GR1, ECR etc……….. Of course Mirage-III for example would be a seperate entry.
EDIT: I listed them alphabetically by manufacturer and gave some production numbers. 😎
I’m sorry I think I’ll have to correct myself upwards, just a little. These are 129 British prototypes/aircraft after WW2.
Sorted by manufacturer (production numbers of the most famous ones):
Airspeed Ambassador (23)
Airspeed Consul (161)
Armstrong Whitworth A.W.52 (2-Prototype flying wing)
Armstrong Whitworth Apollo (2- Prototype)
Armstrong Whitworth Argosy (A.W.650 and A.W.660) (73)
Avro Athena
Avro Vulcan (136)
Avro 707 (5- Delta Prototypes)
Avro 748 (384)
Avro Shackleton (191)
Avro Tudor (38)
Aerospatiale/BAC Concorde (20 supersonic passenger jet)
BAC Strikemaster (146)
BAC 111 (242 passenger jet)
BAC TSR.2 – cancelled (1)
Beagle Bulldog (320)
Beagle Pup (173)
Beagle B.206 (81)
Blackburn B-48 (2 prototypes of a carrier strike aircraft)
Blackburn B-54 (3 prototypes)
Blackburn Beverley (49 four engined propeller transport)
Blackburn Buccaneer (206)
Boulton Paul Balliol
Boulton Paul P.111
Boulton Paul P.120
Bristol Brabazon
Bristol Britannia
Bristol Belvedere
Bristol 170 Freighter and Wayfarer
Bristol 188 (2 -prototypes)
Bristol Sycamore (160 – light helicopter)
British Aerospace 146 (388 includes 2 RJX prototypes)
British Aerospace EAP (1 experimental aircraft)
Britten Norman Islander (1200 – still in production)
Britten Norman Trislander
Britten Norman Defender
De Havilland D.H. 108
De Havilland D.H.125
De Havilland Chipmunk
De Havilland Comet (DH.106)
De Havilland Dove
De Havilland Heron
De Havilland Sea Vixen (151 carrier-borne fighter)
De Havilland Venom (1513 – 126 built under licence in France)
De Havilland Trident
English Electric Canberra (1382 – 979 built in the UK, 403 in the USA)
English Electric Lightning (341)
Eurofighter Typhoon (638 on order -still in production)
Fairey Delta One – prototype
Fairey Delta Two – prototype
Fairey Gannet (352)
Fairey Gyrodyne (3 – helicopter prototype)
Fairey Rotodyne
Fairey Spearfish
Fairey Ultra-light Helicopter
Folland Gnat (455 jet trainer)
Folland Midge
Gloster E.1/44
Gloster Javelin (433)
Handley Page H.P.115
Handley Page H.P.88
Handley Page Herald
Handley Page Hermes
Handley Page Hastings
Handley Page Basic Trainer (2 – prototype)
Handley Page Jetstream (555)
Handley Page Victor
Hawker Siddeley Harrier/British Aerospace Sea Harrier (816 – 490 built by HS/BAe and 326 built by MDD)
Hawker Siddeley Hawk (over 900 ordered – still in production)
Hawker Siddeley Kestrel
Hawker Siddeley Nimrod
Hawker Hunter
Hawker P.1052
Hawker P.1072
Hawker P.1081
Hawker P.1127
Hawker Sea Hawk (557)
Hunting Percival Jet Provost (587 Basic Jet Trainer)
Miles Gemini
Miles H.D.M. 105
Miles Boxcar
Miles Aries
Miles Marathon
Miles Merchantman
Miles Student
Miles Sparrowjet
Panavia Tornado (994)
Percival Prentice
Percival Prince
Percival Provost (388)
Saro Skeeter
Saro SR.53
Saro SR.A/1
Saro Princess
Saro P.531
Scottish Aviation Pioneer
Scottish Aviation Twin Pioneer
Sepecat Jaguar
Short Belfast
Shorts S.B.5
Shorts S.C.1 – VSTOL Prototype
Shorts Sealand
Shorts Seamew
Shorts Sperrin
Shorts Skyvan (154)
Shorts Solent
Shorts Sturgeon
Shorts Sherpa
Shorts 330 (141)
Shorts 360 (165)
Supermarine Attacker
Supermarine Scimitar
Supermarine Seagull ASR.I
Supermarine Swift
Vickers Viking
Vickers Viscount
Vickers Valiant
Vickers Valetta
Vickers Vanguard
Vickers Varsity
Vickers VC10
Westland Dragonfly
Westland EH101 (176 on order – still in production)
Westland Gazelle
Westland Lynx (464 – still in production)
Westland Puma
Westland Scout
Westland Wasp (140 light helicopter)
Westland Westminster
Westland WG.30 (40 medium helicopter)
Westland Widgeon (Helicopter)
Westland Wyvern
Just to add a few to Jacks list:
Fairey FD1, Saunders SR.A1, Avro Type 706 Ashton, Short S.B 5, Short S.B1, Handley Page P115, Bristol Type 188, Saunders-Roe SR 53, Short S.C 1, Hunting H126, Bristol Brabazon etc………
So for this statement to be true:
“about 10 time as many prototypes designed/flown”.
France would need at least 380 prototypes. (as Jack and I named at least 38 British prototypes/series aircraft and we not even named all of them, so the real number you’d have to come up with is probably somewhere near 500 French prototypes/aircraft. :dev2: