Nitin_VYou should put time period of these purchases. MKI deal signed in 1996 will run well into 2020.
So? Thats the production run. The fact remains that India makes big ticket purchases. Unlike certain other nations which Arshad conveniently forgot to mention. 😉
Nitin_Vi simply hate these kind of things….. only one missile per month??….. like the BS that HAL says…. 12-14 a/c for the nest decade…i wonder what the baffoons that rule the country thinks off….. do they inted to keep jobs for these guys for the HAL or they inted to delver the a/c as earliy as possible.
This 12-14 a/c and 140 a/c over a decade is simply too hard to digest and very stupid.
The buffoon, my friend, is you. With your needless assertions and silly categorizations. HAL can churn out a higher number of a/c. Who’ll pay for them? You? The IAF pegged the number at 14 per year in proportion to how many they can afford both monetarily and logistically. Thats a Sq a year. With other a/c like the MRCA on the cards as well to be delivered and then the LCA. Think of the manpower requirements alone.
Nitin_VNuclear use is BR speculation. There is no indication of Special Nuclear role. and what about this whole Licensing and Indiangenization. and how can any prevent an aircraft from using for that role during time of war?
The IAF initially asked for the Mirage 2000’s to fulfill a strategic role. That implies nuclear use.
Originally Posted by star49
LCA at par with Gripen. This must be the joke of the century.
Not quite. The joke of the century is the FC1 being 80% of the F16. 😉
Nitin_VI think most countrys have seen the nature of indian purchases (swinging, alot). They probably know to take this lightly :rolleyes:.
Sure, like the 50+140 Su30 MKI’s, the 310 T90S’s with 1000 more lic produced, the Gorshkovs, the Krivaks, the Hawks, the 19 LLTR’s, the Multiple squadrons of UAV’s….sure, most countries would take an Indian RFP lightly. :rolleyes:
Nitin_VThey already have their pound of flesh, look how much they charge India for all sorts of kit!
Which is still a lot cheaper than buying the same items from elsewhere.
India today has the best of three worlds, it buys custom designed items from Russia and incorporate western, Israeli and Indian subsystems. But the flip side being that the Russians lose out on $$, so they crib. 😀
And most of the equipment we got earlier from the Russians like the MiG’s and T72’s,BMP’s etc was practically handed over for free. 😀
Nitin_VNo, but it doesn’t guarantee it either. The proof is in the eating. Besides, it remains to be seen if my homecooked tikka masala is just as tasty as the one i can order in 😉
To be honest, your culinary carping does not reflect the IAF’s views, nor are they in any way accurate.:)
The eating and the tasting is being done by the IAF and from what I hear first hand, they like what they see. Both Kothiyal and Nambiar were impressed with the LCA’s flight performance and the robustness of the control laws.
The ASTE guys who were independent evaluators were quite happy with the avionics both in terms of sophistcation as well as the reliability. They were the ones who Ok’ed the avionics in coop with CEMILAC. Thats when the LCA’s avionics started popping up all over the place via upgrades to the IAF’s existing fleet.
The only gripe is wrt the Kaveri and the amount of time it takes to get a turbofan operational. Given that, they’re ready to authorise ADA to negotiate with GE for a few engines to get the certitification done with. A proposal has already been submitted to the MOD. What the beancounters and penny pinchers make of it is entirely another matter.
Nitin_VIndia does want M2K-5, and i assume IAF has already selected this for their new fighter programme. The reason why they have asked for proposals from other firms include;
1. Having other options on the table for leverage purpose when it comes to negotiations with the French.
2. A Precaustionary measure; IAF would be able to say it was a competition to all…if any scandals arise in future.That said, Gripen simply does not fit within IAF’s pre-requisites for this new fighter programme. They would want to use this new platform as a part of their nuclear triad, and im not sure how forthcoming the Swedes would be in this regard. Gripen’s range is also a big disadvantage (though aerial refuelling would help), but having LCA and Gripen together does not make much of sense. OTOH, though F-16 does have the range, it comes from US, and i think it would take a few years for US-Indian relations to get to that stage. Upgraded Mig-29s are also another option, but that would go against IAF’s plans for diversification. This leaves M2K-5 as the hottest contender, which meets IAF’s requirements; almost all of them.
An extremely sensible and well reasoned post.
Nitin_VWell it doesnt mean that its failing with the LCA, we dont know. They do need additional planes besides the LCA. But it is amazing that india tries to “hint” at exactly the same planes pakistan tries to aqcuire, most likely to give to influence the choice. so far we heard mirage,f16, grippen right after some other buyer wanted them 😉 . we will have to wait to see what the future brings.
The fact is you boys jump at shadows. Whatever India looks at is for is for its own reasons.
The IAF has been following the Gripen for ages now. I know of LCA test pilots and IAF ASTE LCA development crew who have visited Sweden and closely interacted with SAAB . That way before the Pakistani press started its brouhaha over the Gripen. Should that mean India has first digs on the Gripen? :rolleyes:
The facts are:
The IAF made a RFP favouring the Mirage 2000.
The MOD cracked down, said that a single vendor situation was unacceptable
So the IAF issues a RFP to RAC MiG, Lockheed Martin, Dassault andSAAB.
It has little to do with Pakistans choices and everything to do with India’s official arms procurement policies which castigate single vendor procurements. There is a new Govt in power, one whose main constituent which has already been burnt in the Bofors Howitzer case, so they wish to dot all the i’s and cross all the T’s.
Not very efficient but thats how the system works. Especially when huge sums of money are involved.
Nitin_Vwell id still like to see the gripen in the IAF inventory
Wont happen,too much American content. For the record I agree. The a/c will be playing too important a role in the IAF inventory to be held hostage to superpower shenanigans.
Nitin_VThe S300 is claimed to be in limited service, in its early version to protect certain facilities.
What Ivanov is referring to is the creation of an ATBM screen for major cities and facilities in India, in conjunction with the Indian industry.
The Russians are hardselling the S300 V based system and reportedly , for the right price, even the S400 might be on offer. FWIW. All these offers and counteroffers wont materialize till they meet India halfway.
But the Indian side is more interested in the PAC3 in combination with the Arrow.
So both sides are playing hardball.
Nitin_VMr Ivanov said Indo-Russian defence cooperation was moving ahead in accordance with the long-term military technical programme till year 2010. However, like BrahMos cruise missile project, which was not part of this programme, some new projects are in the pipeline for 2005 and in the coming years.
“I cannot share with you at this juncture, what are these projects. At proper time you will come to know,” Mr Ivanov said when asked about these projects. Space could become a major, thrust area of military cooperation, PTI said.
The IPR issue seems focused on hard selling the S300 vs the Patriot.
Nitin_VApples to oranges. A handful of MiL’s cant be compared to a vital component for a combat aircraft opposed by one of Russia’s biggest customers.
I suggest the PAF better get its fallback options ready. Whether it be a Chinese turbojet or turbofan, rather than relying on Providence and Russia for the RD33.
Nitin_VCrobato,
Till confirmed reports appear, all we can do is whistle in the dark.
And given the PAF penchant for publcity, reports are bound to appear, its merely a matter of time. Besides the FC1 is export oriented, hence the reports have been trotted out fairly frequently, as contradictory as some have been.
Nitin_VI agree, a EF style venture would be required and given the spirit of cooperation that has dogged the EF, I wonder what would have happened if the project was even more expensive and complex. 🙂
Nitin_VExtremely interesting information Harry sincerest thanks for posting it.
The sonar stuff is very good news from an engineering standpoint. Looks like DRDO has taken the time to get the basic materials technology and DSP capability right before attempting anything revolutionary. I find that very impressive given what must have been strong temptation to try and jump straight to spherical arrays and low-frequency active sonar.
One question on the deployment of towed-arrays in the IN though. The stern images I’ve seen of the new Talwars show no provision for a line handling system of any size. Are there any plans to modify the design to accept NAGAN or will the array be limited to those vessels currently capable of TA deployment?
Jonesy, Low freq sonar is mentioned:
Based on these models, sonar range prediction packages–PRAN for low frequency application and Ray Sweep for high frequency application have been developed and are in use.
Second, Indian sonar development and manufacture is in the second decade now. The first APSOH was developed by 77 and deployed in 1980. So tech maturity is a given.
The IN uses mostly Indian made sonars, per conversations with Naval officers, as the Indian sonars are regarded equivalent (by the IN at any rate) to the best available for import. Even the Krivaks use Indian sonars iirc.
The entire program was kicked off in the late 70’s by a joint DRDO naval team led by a Naval officer. Incidentally, after retirement, Stanford offered him a position and he’s there at present. He was doing his Masters at the Indian Institute of Tech, when the Navy yanked him out to head a team to crash improve the IN’s sonars. The loss of the Khukhri to the PN necessitated the same. Within a year, his team juryrigged the original russian sonars in service and improved the performance by a significant margin. The IN then gave them the go ahead to develop a “Indian sonar” attuned to the IN’s specific needs. That was the APSOH. That was then developed into the HUMSA and the entire famly of sonars, one sees today.
Another item of interest, the IN has sonar teams working on sonar development- they work along with DRDO and BEL, the production agency. The latter has a “Sonar division” dedicated to the IN’s needs.
Re: towed array deployment- as far back as last year, there was talk of retrofitting earlier ships to use the Indian towed arrays. The extent of modification was not detailed.
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