Nitin_VThe point being that under the ROE , WVR engagements could have been heavily weighted to occur. And hence the advantage would slip to the IDFAF with Off boresight SRAAM’s and HMS. Unless we know the ROE, the “victory” of the IDFAF remains moot.
Nitin_VROE are the key!
The Israelis may have skewed the ROE to simulate conditions which they would probably go to war; that would not necessarily mean that the USN would fight the same way, if it were to come to that.
Without knowing the ROE, I would put the articles theme as conjecture, at best.
Nitin_VVery nice pic. Love that Il76 and the overcast sky.
As an aside, these Dutch plane spotters appear to be everywhere! 😀
Nitin_VAs I understand, the full-digital Igla-S “Super-Igla” is not going to be cleared for export for quite some time, and it has not been developed without problems.
The Igla is a major upgrade of the Igla-1 (SA-16), and is claimed to be very effective, and has even been exported to western countries.
The non export bit is incorrect, at least in the case of India anyhow. Here, Bharat Dynamics Ltd is the production agency for the Igla- S. That alsom indicates that development problems are over and a finished product was available for tech transfer.
Nitin_VMay I point the Gentlemen to the Russian thoughts about the usefulness of stealth in the air-to-air environment? (No fast source for reference here, sorry).
And may I remember the Gentlemen, that the current LO features in the radar band concentrate on just one or a very small band (X-band mostly), whereas most surveillance radars operate in the E/F-band, most fire control radars in the I/J-band and most fighter radars in the X-band? Let alone the problem of OTH and bistatic radars. This means you will NEVER be invisible on radar. An technologically up-to-date enemy will always know you’re coming. The idea that you can send out a stealth fighter on his own and clean the sky with impunity is absurd.
To be perfectly honest, the Russian views on stealth, wherein they touted the virtues of superman. vs stealth, seemed to be a case of “sour grapes” to me. The US *has* shown the path that airwarfare is going to take in the coming years- UCAV’s, LO a/c and integrated Info. networks. They devised the same after extensive research and $$. It makes sense to go for the same. Now that Su’ has the money, they’re singing the same tune, but earlier it was all about selling what they had vis a vis what they didnt, so they underplayed stealth and touted a/c design and manoueverability as being the key factor. Fat lotta good thats gonna do, when you get hammered from extreme ranges by an invisible sniper.
Even if you escape, you just got mission killed!
Furthermore, I’d wager that the F/A-22 is optimized for a relatively wide spectrum of emissions and that suitable surface treatments can be generated to tweak its signature across different freq bands. A modular approach as it were. The basic design being optimized for LO to boot.
Nitin_VSo what. If an any fighter comes close enough to an F-22 to fire such a missile, then something went very wrong in the frist place. An F-22 should use the AMRAAM for frontal spect shoots. If it has to use teh IR missiles, then the F-22 should use it speed and height advantage in combination with the better situational awerness to go for rear aspect attacks.
An F-22 is not untouchable, but it cleary enjoys a sound advantage over “conventional” fighters.
Furthermore,its not inconceivable that the F/A22 could be made ARM capabke as well- its RHAW gear is the best ever, and it has sensor fusion. The AMRAAM’s will be targetted based on both its APG77 as well as RWR data, and with additional cheek arrays plus improvements to its onboard ESM system- its going to be tricky. The darn a/c is built for upgrade, with its software in the CIP’s being the engines of change as compared to ripping out and transferring LRU’s.
Suffice to say, SA is *not* a worry for any F/A-22 pilot.
Nitin_VAt the end of the day, stealth aids survivability.
A LPI equipped F/A22 can detect and knock down unsuspecting opponents. It can take out key nodes in an opponents ADGES with stand off weapons which can then be exploited by LO UCAV’s and other a/c…
Now how many nations can put in place a system which rivals the US ORBAT and effectively defang the F /A22 and its sensor shooter n/w whcih will follow it?
In effect, re stealth: As Mark Twain once said, “the reports of my demise are greatly exaggerated. 🙂
Nitin_VSu 30 Mk1= Su30 K
But what confuses the issue is the fact that Indian media reports and even the GOI themselves sometimes refer to the Su30MKI as Mk1.:rolleyes:
Nitin_VVikramaditya was a famous Indian king (an actual historical figure btw) who is said to have ruled for a hundred years and lived for 117 years, per some accounts. I do hope the IN doesnt want the Gorshy to stick around that long! 😀
He was quite adept militarily and hence the name Vikram became synonymous with “brave”. Was also reputed to be extraordinarily just – kind of the Indian Solomon.
Nitin_VIndian Navy- Tsunami Relief Ops
Nitin_VHeres the catch. Did they have other radars to begin with?
Out of the 5 that did have the Agave, at one point of time, reliability problems forced three off the flightline, leaving only two available.
Thats probably why we acquired the Elta 2032.
There are 10 IM’s, with two Trainers, the crew wear non IAF std Orange flightsuits for Naval ops.
Presently the whole Qn of Jaguars for AS roles seems moot as the MKIs seem to be picking up the slack armed with KH31’s and then the Brahmos in the future.
Nitin_VAbout the Sea Eagles, Indian Jag IS/IM planes use the Agave radar, dedicated Maritime Strike aircraft with the Sea Eagles.
No, the Indian IM’s have transitioned to the Elta 2032. They are now getting SAR/ ISAR modes (which were apparently an option and not part of the original package), deal being signed on the 13th of January 2004. The Agaves had poor serviceability and were increasingly unreliable. BTW was it known earlier that only 5 IM’s had the Agave?
Nitin_VFrom West London Aviation Group’s “South East Air Review” Vol.17, No.7 – July 1978:
“Jaguar in RAF Service”
Test Aircraft:
Used promarily by BAC Warton and A&AEE Boscombe Down’s ‘A’ Squadron.
XW563 (S.07) Manufacturer’s trials. Updated at West Freugh (Scotland) on weapons trials and Magic overwing missile tests.
Best regards
Steve Rush ~ Touchdown-News
Addition:
To give a slightly better idea of timescale, XW563 was withdrawn from service and in use with 14 Squadron’s ‘Aircraft Servicing Flight’ at RAF Bruggen, Germany by 1978.
Thanks!
Pak Thunder, cool, we seem to have finally laid this issue to rest!
“We”? 😀
Paul_M: Why the confusion?
BAe tested the overwing pylons from 1975 onwards, but the RAF saw no need to buy them. They were offered to Jaguar International customers, but weren’t initially popular. India got the pylons fitted to its Jaguars, possibly after delivery, but the didn’t invent the design- it was the BAe designed pylon. In 1991, BAe fitted overwing pylons to the British Jags before use in the Gulf War, and probably consulted with the Indian companies and air force who were the only ones to have operational experience with the overwing pylons at that point.
A perfectly logical and cogent explanation which ties in with all the multiple sources.
Nitin_VNitin
The picture by your username is quickly becoming a self paraody.
It is referred to as self deprecating humour. As compared to grandiose and bombastic usernames such as Pak Thunder etc. 😀
The name sure suggests a lot of noise but little substance….
All I or someone else has to do is post a link or picture with a Jag (Omani or otherwise) taken prior to 1977 and we can end this matter once and for all, agreed?
Indeed I have asked Frank, and other informed contributors to add to the discussion. You may notice I have not asked you to do so. My expectations of you are sort of …underwhelming.
Or will you then try and claim the picture/source is a fake as per ususal?
ROTFL. I have acknowledged all *credible* sources till date. What constantly amuses me is the way you twist sources. The parody of Greg Goebels webpage that you made was but one recent instance.
I can well understand the raging need, the desire that you have to pour bile on the hated enemy, to crush them with your “thunder”…but may I suggest that you overstep in your enthusiasm…as in extrapolating claims which were not made.
I am yet to see where Greg claimed that the Omani Jags were equipped with overwing Magics in 1977 itself, but that didnt stop you from fudging the words and claiming that the webpage claimed the same explicitly.
And then saying that I was attacking the webpage when I was merely pointing out that it was you who were explicitly claiming the same, the webpage sure as heck wasnt.
Besides when you take an amateurs word (he didnt refer to ASTE so ASTE didnt do anything etc) over the words of one who served in that organization, was a test pilot and obviously knows more about the nitty gritties of the Jag in IAF service, and flew the darn plane, its rather hard not to remain amused at your tactics.
Like I said, I have more hope in Frank, Flood, Paul Mead etc in digging up some interesting information and clarifying the issue. I sure as heck know it wont be you.
Nitin_VNitin
I cannot factor in every mission our choppers will do, but I expect alot of it will involve ant-terrorism, anti-drug smuggling etc ATGM may come in handy, again, if the PN need it, I assume they know what they are doing
The entire point being that the PN has not declared that its outfitting the choppers with ATGMs and this discussion was sparked by some posters collation of what was offered at IDEAS plus some liberal imagination to boot.
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