Yes, overwing pylons were shown on a mockup at Farnborough 1974.

They were offered as an option on the Jaguar S International.

It is possible that Indian companies might have been consulted pre-Gulf War, if time was tight. This doesn’t mean that the Indians “invented” overwing pylons, but they were the only people with experience in using and integrating missiles with these pylons.

Exactly what Harry and I have been pointing out.

Harry
The first batch were Jag Internationals delivered with rails to use the magic, yes later they got some RAF ones, but the FIRST OMANI JAG INTERNATIONALS WERE DELIVERED WITH OVERWING RAILS IN 1977

Now ad as many smiles as you want, but the above are facts and will not change, India may have odnw some integration work I dont know about that and cannot deny it, but lets not pretend they were the first

Stop getting hysterical and state which link states that Oman got overwing rail EQUIPPED Jags *in* 1977. Sheesh.
The Magics could have been retrofitted much later.
Oh, lest I forget- 😀

” All Omani Jaguars were all painted in a brown / sand desert camouflage scheme. Overwing launch rails were originally fitted, at least to the single-seaters, for carriage of the Matra Magic AAM, but for some obscure reason the Omanis decided to switch to carrying AIM-9P Sidewinders on the outboard underwing pylons. Oman actually assigned its Jaguars an air-defense role. ”

Happy!? Or let me guess, your ASTE developed the Omani Jags as well!? 😉

Omans Jags were delivered in 1977, and they were using launch rails, so lets end this stupid debate here and now, as frankly lots of users here would get more credit if they just admited they may be wrong and for once their countries claims are wrong, there is no shame in it….

Truly silly. Does the link- by an amateur to boot- mention when the Omanis got their Magics on overwing rails?

The Magics were validated in 1981.

Wall paintings? Tipu Sultan imported rockets from China to use as ad-hoc MBRLs against the British. This is a well known fact.

Tipu made his own rockets- they were iron cased and were better than what the Europeans did..but the true pioneers appear to be the Marathas, (or the founding fathers / ancestors of todays Maharahstra in the Indian republic).

Source: The History of Indian Rocketry, 30th Nov 1991.
By Dr. APJ Abdul Kalam
(Director Defence Research & Development Laboratory Hydaerabad, India)

Many such researchers have to spring up in our Universities as well. Soon, I learnt that two of the war rockets captured by British at Srirangapatana have been displayed in the Museum of Artillery at Woolwich in London. o*ne of my missions during my visit to Europe in 1980 was to study this rocket. Dr.VR.Gowarkar and I visited the museum. It was a great thrill especially for Rocket technologists like us, to see an Indian innovation in a foreign soil well preserved and with facts not distorted.

Under the heading “India’s War Rocket”, the following details are recorded in the Woolwhich museum London. The motor casing of this rocket is made of steel with multi nozzle holes with the sword blade as the warhead. The propellant used was packed gunpowder. Weight of the rocket is about 2kg. With about 1kg of propellant. 50mm in dia about 250mm length, the range performance is reported 900mts to 1.5 km. Our designers analyzed and confirmed their performance. What a simple and elegant design effectively used in war!

The text above is an sourced from the homage paid to Tipu Sultan by, Dr. Abdul Kalam during the Hazrath Tipu Sultan Shaheed Memorial Lecture organised by the Al-Ameen Educational Society Bangalore o*n 30th Nov 1991.
Dr Kalam is currently the President of India.

and…

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/SPACE/space-history1.html

Thereafter from 1750 AD -1799 Haider Ali and Tipu Sultan[1] (Sultan of Mysore, in South India) perfected rocket’s use for military purposes, very effectively using it in war against British colonial armies. Tipu Sultan had 27 brigades (called Kushoons) and each brigade had a company of rocket men called Jourks. In the Second Anglo-Mysore war, at the Battle of Pollilur (10 September 1780), Hyder and Tipu achieved a grand victory, the contributory cause being that one of the British ammunition tambrils was set on fire by Mysorean rockets.

At the Battle of Seringapatam in 1792, Indian soldiers launched a huge barrage of rockets against British troops, followed by an assault of 36,000 men. Although the Indian rockets were primitive by modern standards, their sheer numbers, noise and brilliance were said to have been quite effective at disorienting British soldiers. During the night, the rockets were often seen as blue lights bursting in the air. Since Indian forces were able to launch these bursting rockets from in front of and behind British lines, they were a tremendous tool for throwing the British off guard. The bursting rockets were usually followed by a deadly shower of rockets aimed directly at the soldiers. Some of these rockets passed from the front of the British columns to the rear, inflicting injury and death as they passed. Sharp bamboo was typically affixed to the rockets, which were designed to bounce along the ground to produce maximum damage[2]. Two of the rockets fired by Indian troops in 1792 war are on display at the Royal Artillery Museum in London[3].

Later at the battle of Srirangapattana (4’th Anglo-Mysore war) April 1799, British forces lead by Col Arthur Wellesley (Duke of Wellington) ran away from battlefield when attacked by rockets and musket fire of Tipu Sultan’s army. Unlike contemporary rockets whose combustion chamber was made of wood (bamboo), Tipu’s rockets weighing between 2.2 to 5.5 kg used iron cylinder casing that allowed greater pressure, thrust & range (1.5 to 2.5 Km)[4] .

The British were greatly impressed by the Mysorean rockets using iron tubes. At the end of war more then 700 rockets and sub systems of 900 rockets were captured and sent to England. William Congreve thoroughly examined the Indian specimens to reverse engineer and making its copies that were later used successfully in naval attack on Boulogne(1806)[5], siege of Copenhagen(1807)[6] and also against fort Washington(New York) during America independence war,that is recounted as, “rockets’ red glare” in U.S. National Anthem “The Star Spangled Banner”[7].

INDIAN TROOPS ROUT BRITISH. The English confrontation with Indian rockets came in 1780 at the Battle of Guntur. The closely massed, normally unflinching British troops broke and ran when the Indian Army laid down a rocket barrage in their midst. http://history.msfc.nasa.gov/rocketry/11.html

http://www.nationalgalleries.org.uk/tipu/tipu312.htm

It was, however, the rocket which was Tipu’s deadliest missile, ‘a weapon hitherto held almost in derision,’ wrote Wilks, ‘because seen in small numbers it is easily avoided.’ These ‘weapons of fire’ are mentioned in the Vedic hymns and in the Ramayana (c.300BC) and have a long tradition in India. Rockets could be of various sizes, but the general design was an iron tube about 8″ long and 1½ – 3″ diameter, closed at one end and strapped to a shaft of bamboo about 4ft. long. The cylinder was filled with combustible material and some powder – a large rocket, carrying about one pound of powder could travel some 1,000 yards. A watercolour by Robert Home painted during the Third Mysore War, shows one of Tipu’s rocket men in his ‘tyger jacket’ bending to pick up just such a missile. Although rockets existed also in Europe, they were not iron cased, and their range was far less than that of their oriental counterparts. Indeed, it was a study of the Mahrattas’ use of the rocket which eventually led to the publication of ‘A Concise Account of the Origin and Progress of the Rocket System’, published in 1804 by William Congreve, son of the Commander of the Royal Arsenal at Woolwich, London.

Rockets had already been used against the British in 1755, and at Plassey in 1757, but it was at the Battle of Panipat (1761) , against the Marathas, when the British first experienced the truly formidable power of massed rockets – some 2,000 fired simultaneously. Tipu’s own military manual, ‘Fathul Mujahidin’, copies of which were distrubuted to all his officers, gives 200 rocketmen in each Mysorean cushoon, and a total of 16 cushoons of infantry (Lieut. Bushby, describing Tipu’s infantry, intimates that 24 cushoons may have been nearer the total).Rocket men were trained to assess the parabolic curve of the rocket’s flight and vary the angle of dispatch, depending on the diameter of the cylinder and the distance from the target. For multiple launching, Tipu created his own ‘rocket organ’, capable of launching 5-10 rockets at once – as used at the siege of Honore (1784) . 600 ‘engines of iron for throwing rockets’ were found at Seringapatam in 1799, together with 700 serviceable and 9,000 empty rockets. Some of these had iron points or steel blades bound to the bamboo, to inflict greater damage, and some of Haidar’s rockets had pierced cylinders, so that the wind could catch the burning flame, and the passing rocket would then act like an incendiary. Tara-mandalpet or ‘Galaxy Bazaar’ was thus an appropriate name for the areas of towns where rockets and fireworks were manufactured.

Beatson refers to ‘a dreadful explosion’ caused on 2nd May, when a shot from one of the British batteries struck a magazine of rockets within the fort at Seringapatam. The explosion is recorded in one of Beatson’s illustrations for his account of the final Mysore War: a towering cloud of black smoke, with cascades of exploding white light, rising from behind the battlements. The aquatint process used for the illustration dramatically captured Beatson’s ‘View of the North West Front of Seringapatam, Shewing the Approaches of the Batteries, the Breach, and the explosion of the Rocket magazine.’

For those, like Baird, who had fought at Pollilur nineteen years earlier, there must have been a grim memory of a similar situation in reverse: the havoc wrought by one of Tipu’s missiles and the explosion of the British ammunition tumbrils.

Heh, should have known Bangalore would be involved somehow. 😀
http://www.bangalorebest.com/discoverbangalore/sightseeing/TimeLine/tiger.asp

As his main aim was to strengthen his military power and oust the British out of country, he founded a huge ordinance factory at Devanahalli. At Bangalore, rockets were manufactured and stored at Taramandalpet (Kalasipalya today). The armoury still exists next to Bangalore Medical College.

The latest product to be productionised will be “Cadimium Zinc Telluride” (CZT) crystals developed at SSPL, New Delhi for militarily strategic applications in Night vision equipment, Focal Point Arrays etc. The facility is coming up at CEL and production is expected to commence in September 2001.

http://www.celsolar.com/consec/technology.htm

Thanks, could you elaborate more? Any pics?
Were the pylons displayed at a show – iow, were they mockups of how Sepecat wanted things to be, or had they already been validated by then?

It could well be that Sepecat / BAe /ASTE validated the pylons etc on the previously mentioned Jag with the DARIN. That would account for the confusion and the mirroring accounts by the different agencies involved in the program.

All the best,
Nitin

Ok, now to correct the overwing pylon nonsense posted here…

According to WAPJ:

The overwing pylon was developped by SEPECAT for the Jaguar International.
It was cleared for the Magic II, in order to provide a self defense capability without compromising the combat load.

Afterwards, it got cleared for the AIM-9, and the RAF then adopted it and used it in 1991.

I am afraid thats hardly conclusive. That sounds pretty generic and without details. As noted earlier, all product/ process improvements for the Jaguar were proprietary BAe property without IPR limitations and could be recognised as such, without mentioning the local contributors.

Do you have any cites from the OEM- namely British Aerospace or the others?

Please note, that the cites earlier are from those officers involved DIRECTLY with the ASTE, the Indian Air Force’s Aircraft and Systems Testing Establishment.

It was ASTE which was the nodal agency for developing IAF specific Jaguar improvements.

So are there any sources from the British/ French side which explicitly mention the timeline, weapons integration etc?

There are bound to be some?