Heh heh – during a news item today about the RAF Kinloss closure date, the BBC also said that “A decision on RAF Lossiemouth, and that of RAF Leuchars in Fife, will be announced after the Scottish elections on 5 May.”
Why would the Scottish elections influence the announcement date, I wonder???
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-12492509

Aye Al, I wondered that too…. Funny how they can push through their AV reform for the voting system, and make a statement about Marham, but have to wait for a decision on the Scottish bases.

Methinks they are waiting to find the best time to place the baseball bat somewhere it don’t belong. Not as though the ruling party don’t have a well documented policy of doing that up here….

I think he is Scotty, there dosen’t seem to be the same thing being said about the other base closures and how it is all down to political seats etc.
Also as I’ve mentioned above, Leuchars was set for closure before the election and the SDSR.

I thought that Kinloss had been confirmed as becoming an Army Barracks for units withdrawing out of Germany, Cosford or St Athan in similar position.
I can’t see any real strong argument for keeping Leuchars (or indeed three stations in Scotland) in the face of large RAF cuts, bases simply can’t be kept going purely for jobs or political gain.

I see your point James, and you are right – bases cannot be kept open just for political gain, although stranger things have happened.

I don’t think Al is exaggerating, as I’ve heard a lot of mumblings through the course of my work who think Scotland is over subsidised, and would welcome giving the Scots their independence. I’m not sure that is a good idea, but in any case is for another forum.

But it’s interesting how Church Fenton can be kept open for UAS, and does Scampton have any permanent aircraft units at the moment? If not, why not close them? Would save a fortune….

Kind regards as always

Scotty

Doesn’t matter that it’s Ming Campbell’s seat – the Tories know full well they don’t have a snowball’s chance in hell of ever coming to power in Scotland, and the independence body is becoming larger all the time.
They’ve made up their minds that it’s time to asset-strip Scotland before we get independence, and as punishment to the Scots for hardly voting for them at all. The Tories may even want independence too – if Scotland was out of the voting equation, they would never have to worry about losing elections again – the rest of the UK might like to take some time to digest that fact…

That hits the nail firmly on the head, both paragraphs. The last sentence very nicely put……

Coventry would be a good home for her alongside WR963?

they don’t have hangar space for 963, so is it likely that Mr Rusty would find a home there too? Just a thought… 🙂

Camlobe – well done for trying, and I appreciate this approach. As I live in the NE of Scotland, work overseas, I have little chance to help, but I hope you get a positive response.

Kind regards,
Scotty

It still exists as such but it has been a wreck for years, it was flown to Nicosia as a fire training airframe in 1971, it was stripped of internal kit by the RAF just after arrival.
I have got an idea that it might have been the last RAF MR.3 flight, but need to double check that.

Actually, there is a few contenders for that, and it doesn’t look like XF700 was the last MK3 to fly in RAF hands

XF700 was landed at Nicosia in Jan 1972 and then stripped out for fire practice. From the photos it looks like a good job was made of it!

WR972 (The RAE one) was SOC 31 Jan 1973. Not sure when last flight was…

WR987, WR988, WR989, XF708 were ferried to 5MU in Jan 1972.

WR987 transferred to RAF Honington 17 June 1972, SOC Cat 5 (Scrap)
WR988 transferred to RAF Macrihanish on 24 April 1972. SOC Cat 5 (Scrap) on arrival
WR989 dispatched to RAF Leeming on 14 July 1972. Also SOC Cat 5 (Scrap) on arrival.

XF708 was flown to Duxford to be used as a flying exhibit but was grounded on arrival 23 Aug 1972.

Apart from WR972, all the rest were ex 203 Sqn, based at Luqa. 203 relinquished their Shacks in Dec 1971. XF700 was the only one not to go to 5 MU, so probably flew direct to Cyprus, hence the RAF strip out in Nicosia. Although not the last to fly in RAF control, it would have most likely been the last ever RAF squadron flight of a MR3 Shackleton. (It all depends on how much you want to let the inner pedant out – I was split over the matter!)

204 Sqn was the last RAF Sqn to fly the Shack as an MR aircraft, retiring their MK2’s from Honington in May 1972. Last MR2 flight was 8 Sqn’s WG556 which had a heavy landing sometime in 1980 at RAF Lossiemouth – to BDR.

The AEW’s at Paphos are disgusting. I cannot understand why they have been left open to elements, and things like props and other hatches removed. Especially when you think they were the 2 display airframes. I’ve flown in WL747 (hence the moniker!) and it is really sad to see them now, considering they flew in. Because of their location, I hate to say it, but they are doomed. Nobody in this economic climate is going to rescue them, and if somebody does, I hope it is not too late. Can’t ever see them flying again though… 😡

XV241 was scrapped at Kinloss earlier this week, that leaves just the following to meet their fate
XV235, XV244 & XV252,

Any idea what’s happening to the gate guard XV240? So sad that they tried for so long to get a gate guard and now the base is closing, is the future of that airframe in doubt? It’s still not guarranteed that the Army are moving in, is it?

I remember flying in gliders from Kinloss, looking down on the remains of Shack MR1/T4 WB847, and the pilot telling me that was once due to be the gate guard…

Kind Regards
Scotty

Looks like a Bendix King ADF aerial…..

I used to service them some time ago….

Kind Regards,

Scotty

Are they the only thing to blame?

Even in post war years the RAF had over 400 maritime aircraft

Well, that was just after the war when we had many other aircraft left over from that conflict in the shape of Lancs etc. Also, most importantly, we still had a good bit more of the empire left than we currently do, and had the requirement for more aircraft. Malaya and Singapore spring to mind. It sort of says something when that 400 were going to be replaced by 9 Nimrods, don’t you think?

When they stop making the Eurofighter and the Hawk that will be it – no more aircraft building in the UK and whose fault will that be? Both the MoD and BAE Systems, who firstly stopped making civilian aircraft. Then they sold our share in Airbus, though thankfully we still make the wings for various aircraft.

To be fair to BAe, and other companies, the UK is a tiny country, with ideas way above its station. Although many companies produced airliners at one point, this could be traced back to the development of flight and the great strides in its technology. As time goes on, companies fail or merge, which really is how BAe pretty much came to be in a fashion. It is not that there is a lack of demand for aircraft, but world wide there could be a lack of demand for many varying types, and rationalisation takes place. Therefore less types and less manufacturers.

Add to the fact that to make an aircraft, the raw materials to make it have to be imported to this country, labour to make the complete aircraft here is no longer cheap and the units sold are likely to be comparitively low (BAe 146, ATP etc). So it makes sense to club together with the likes of Airbus, which still keeps some british jobs rather than none at all. Besides, this isn’t just a UK problem, it is the same for France, Germany, Italy, etc who all have a share in Airbus too. The US has more natural resources and its own large market (N. America is about the size of Western Europe, so maybe it makes sense to have Boeing vs. Airbus) therefore will always have a healthy aircraft manufacturing industry. But even then, it is not without its contraction (Boeing and McDD merging).

So it isn’t exclusively the fault of the MoD or BAe, but also the progression of time and market demands. I would rather have a sensibly proportioned airforce than an MoD that just orders aircraft to keep people in work regardless of the cost. I just don’t think scrapping Nimrod is a good decision – mothballing would have been the better idea, so when we can afford it, we have something ready to go….

Finally, can I praise the Moderators for keeping this thread open. We have been off topic some time ago but we need to get this off our collective chests. We all feel ruddy peeved off by what has happened. We appreciate our heritage and only have pride in our once first-class aeronautical industry. We have a right to be upset and angry.

Yes, you are right, it is good that the mods have kept this thread open, and I too have been guilty of going off topic. I am peeved off too that Nimrod has been cancelled and a sizeable gap left as 1) I live in the area affected by the base closures. 2) I work at sea and the thought that if it all went **** up a Nimrod (or another MPA) will be there soon to supervise my rescue wouldn’t be far away – not now! 3) It has been a very short sighted decision to cancel something that was almost there, and waste the £4bn already spent. Especially that knowing eventually we will have to buy something else, and it will cost just as much, if not more!

Our heritage? It was always going to be slowly dying… Woodford was being closed anyway, and even the new Nimrod would eventually be replaced. This isn’t the final nail in the coffin, just a heavier hammer to bash the nails in.

As a postcript, it is so so sad to see aircraft so near to completion just being smashed up. That starts my blood to boil, and as a tax payer, knowing I have given so much to be wasted, makes my blood boil faster.