rkumarfrom what’s been said, it is the India’s officials that want Dassault to be responsible for any potential defect that may result from HAL’s production… even if it’s entirely HAL’s fault.. for as long as India asks for such silly engagement (from any manufacturer, not only Dassault)
my phrase was just to illustrate the fact that you can’t act like a kid and ask to be free of any liability in a deal such as this one.
Of course, India is behaving silly like a kid. :highly_amused:
they’ll have to wait for any technology they may expect… you want technology, independence, and do it by yourself it’s fine, but you have to assume responsibility for what you do… it is, sort of: “you want to play with the big guys? grow up then!” 😉
a “big guy” is the guy who assumes his responsabilities … 😉
I don’t see these two statements equal in spirit or text. To be honest, I find, first one is more honest, truthful and authentic. 🙂
rkumarDon’t bother to read, only name is enough … “Rajat Pandit” … he is pro claimed supporter of arm lobby groups. For those who don’t know this guy…
>>It is important that plane flies but during development is even more important to cover the test points.
>>There are number of video’s where Tejas did taxi back right after the sortie … most celebrated one is in Leh.
>>Fuel gauge, it is already fixed with a newer system. Few weeks back reported, out of my memory using some pressure technique. (Something similar to Swedish plane)
>>Radome has signal losses and work is on-going.
rkumarthe question is: was that liability clause present in the MRCA requirements?
my guess is that it was not, or else, India would most certainly have no bidders at all as no sane company director would engage his company in such a risky deal.
There are no new terms inserted into the requirements. No sane country will demand unreasonable terms. Like I said, there are low chances of this deal going through … only Chinese can help in it. My last reply on this topic
rkumarEven if I accept your line of argument, that India made illogical and stupid demands. Then why bothered to do all this circus by participating in the competition? Why they are wasting our time, I don’t care about their time. It costs lots of money, professional resources and time to organize it. It is like if I can’t win a competition, I also don’t let others win it.
rkumarIn an attemp to keep informal, AK ANthony recently stated that negociations should be done in july, final signature in Sept.
Just minor correction … It was air force chief not def Min. He is repeating this statement since last year or two and before that others.
OT – START
I can understand it took 25 years for LCA to get IOC when we need 15 years only for selecting MMRCA. Still haven’t got a single plane and will not get for another 3-4 years … so will take sweet 2 decades. Thank God, at least LCA are flying.
OT -END
rkumarDassault … is sticking to their guns, India will buy if its really really needed. Only Chinese can help them, by pulling few more boarder tricks. Otherwise Dassault has low chances but very informative quote
There are known knowns. These are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say, there are things that we know we don’t know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don’t know we don’t know.
Donald Rumsfeld
Dassault wants keep the technology and get all the money they need for developing next plane. It seems they never read the terms and conditions or they were thinking to br*be and bypass those.
Snow monkey, some of your comments I find arrogant. On a positive side, such comments helps others to do their best to prove you wrong. So I hope you keep repeating these now and then.
rkumarThis was not a trolling … these are facts.
My comment “What happened to “higher than Himalayas and deeper than sea” friendship and “iron brothers” was sarcastic and at the right place.
Anyway, I have no interest in Pakistan related topics. I was only interested in palembang comments. As far as India is concerned, Pakistan and NK are extensions of China. Yes, United Countries of China is a threat to India.
rkumarActually, the hindu/sikh “Prince” of the princely state of Kashmir decided to merge with India, he didn’t ask the people what they wanted. Seeing as they were majority Muslims, they didn’t want to join India, even to this day if they had a choice, which they don’t, they would reject Indian rule. Kashmir was/is the only Muslim majority state that didn’t accede to form Pakistan. The other princely states in India didn’t have much of a choice either.
Because you, along with the powers in the region, don’t recognise the historical borders of the state of Kashmir.
The definition of “Azad” in this context is that people of Azad Kashmir and the Northern Territories are not constitutionally part of Pakistan. Azad Kashmir has it’s own government, elections and leaders. In fact, Pakistan has to pay the Azad Kashmir Government for power generated from the Mangla dam. Because Kashmiris believe they have a state, naturally there is solidarity amongst the people of Kashmir, whether they be in Indian occupied Jammu or in Free Azad Kashmir. When Indian troops commit rape, burning people alive in their homes, state sponsored murders etc, then naturally the Kashmiris freedom fighters will support their brethren. Can you please tell me why the Indians hide their state sponsored crimes in Indian occupied Kashmir? Why don’t the Indians give the Kashmiris the same right of self determination that Azad Kashmir has?
The tourist trade is subject to political and security stability in Indian occupied Kashmir. Any flare up in violence will directly impact tourism there. Also, given the recent news of violence against women in Indian society in general and the recent murder of a foreign female tourist in Jammu, tourism will not be a significant resource over the short term.
You keep asking questions and haven’t bothered to answer even one question. Either I am replying to a 2 year kid or a troll which keep asking questions, not bothered at all to understand what I am saying. So please spare me, I have better things to then educating you or singing the praise of the pure.
Regarding rapes, every society has some mentally ill people and this problem is not specific to India. These news get reported because we have a free media. Thank God, we are dumb enough not to stoned to death ladies or human life under pretext of adultery or for damaging a book or saying something.
rkumarKashmir territory is the territory as defined by the historical princely state of Kashmir.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/68/Kashmir_region_2004.jpg
Unfortunately, India, China and Pakistan don’t recognise this territory, and all 3 have occupied it to some degree. You may not believe such territory exists, but for Kashmiris, it does exist. Given the choice, most Kashmiris would love to see the back of all three powers in the region. Azad Kashmir at least doesn’t suffer the brutal state sponsored occupation of Indian troops, with rape, killings, torture and human rights abuses that comes along with that occupation. Sadly, Kashmir doesn’t have oil or any other global context to make it an important enough issue, so the status quo continues, rather like the Israeli/Palestinian issue.
This is again OT but I will try to answer it
1. Historically, there were n number of princely states like “Jammu and Kashmir”. They were combined to form modern India (Bharat/Hindustan). Another important fact as you mentioned “Princely state of Kashmir”, decided to merge with India.
2. The link/image you have attached, link says “Kashmir region” and images “Jammu and Kashmir” as there is no Kashmir territory.
3. What is the definition of “Azad”, where people are free and can express their opinions and view without any fear. These rights people exercised yesterday/exercise today/will do exercise tomorrow. Could you please let me know when and why Indian troops entered “Jammu and Kashmir”? Do “Azad kashmir” freedom fighter has the licensee and right to do rapes, killings, torture and human rights abuses of people of Jammu and Kashmir (Pundits and Muslim alike)? Do you have stats if ever any “Azad kashmir” freedom fighter was sentenced because of any of their crimes? I am sure you can find such stats whenever army or police is found involved in such crimes.
4. “Jammu and Kashmir” is more valuable then oil or other resources. It is a taj of India and full of natural beauty. I am happy violence is coming down. Tourist, business n growth is coming back.
rkumarThe correlation between injustice and condemnation in the theatre of world opinion is, sadly, very weak. And India is one of the major benefactors of that. For all its inefficacy, Tibet is at least an active issue in world opinion. The same can’t be said for India’s ongoing occupation of Kashmir.
:applause: for making absurd statements -> “India is one of the major benefactors” and “Tibet is at least an active issue” and a gem “India’s ongoing occupation of Kashmir“
There is nothing to discuss when someone is making such ignorant, fundamentally wrong and multiple incorrect statements in just two lines.
Anyway, my closing post on this issue.
Cheers
rkumarThis is Kashmir territory, yes? In the sense that if India was to withdraw from Kashmir the Siachen Glacier/Aksai Chin areas disputed with China would go with it and become Somebody Else’s Problem? If this is so, Indian claims to be defending ‘their land’ can be taken with a degree of equanimity corresponding to the broader Kashmir question.
It is getting ridiculous with every post … What is Kashmir territory? There is no such term and lets don’t invent it. India has legal claim on PoK and area under Chinese control Aksai Chin. Tibet is a independent country which China is occupying forcefully. It is a shame that world is mute about it.
Will it be OK if Russia withdraw from all areas in conflict with China then it will become Somebody Else’s Problem?
rkumarThis seems similar to the situation in Kargil over 10 years ago. Back then, the Indians used land and airforce to expel the invaders. So what’s different now? :dev2: I guess bullies know when they are beaten.
Indian media of course are as hysterical as ever…
Let me give 3 answers which you are asking
1. Yes, we used IAF and IA to expel when all talks failed. We don’t shot as soon as you see someone. Give reasonable time to both parties (us and other party) to think about it.
2. I am puzzled by word choice “bullies”, how India can be called a bully when we were defending our land?
3. Regarding Indian media, that is all about democratic setup and freedom of speech. Everyone can say whatever they like. Can someone say forget print against CPC or PLA?
rkumarI don’t know about France but if we had this capability, India would not send it. Even if we send the package, would not allow to use it. We have different priorities and requirements as compared to NATO nations.
rkumarWhy would BAE do that?
About Naval platform only Oracle can see and predict. BTW, navy is betting on NLCA and it is too early to predict how it will turn out.
rkumarAgain OT
e.g. with BAE, we got out dated/incorrect designs for tooling or supply kits which would not match with the components locally produced as per specification. India want to avoid such issues.
It is not that Dassault will never be allowed to enter HAL premisses (Which I guess Dassault would love… lol). But Dassault will be working with and provide consultancy to HAL. For all problem(s), Dassault will be consulted and in stead of shrugging their shoulder or demanding extra money it is expected they will help HAL to fix those issues without delay. I hate it say but to remind, French will benefit from this deal for next 30-40 years, which I sincerely doubt any other nation can offer.
Please don’t forget HAL is the best what India has got and Dassault has to accept it if they are interested in this deal. (And India is willing to sign it.)
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