rkumarSee? I gave you very strong hints. I offered you the chance to take them, to think about what I’d said & check it, but you chose not to. But as has been said, “The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge.” You wouldn’t take the opportunity to privately check what you thought you knew: you were confident in your illusion, so I had to disillusion you publicly. What did you think I was doing? I was mocking you gently to give you the chance to escape public humiliation. All you had to do was put ‘rouge’ into Google, & you’d have found your mistake.
Learn from this.
Thank you for correcting me. I don’t take is as public humiliation and not much concerned about it. Everyone has some weakness so I accept it and live happily with it.
Coming back to the topic, you and others understood from the context what I meant.
Oh no!! Our Def. Mis. strikes again …
HAL team’s visit to Dassault facilities in France on hold
New Delhi: The visit by a HAL team to Dassault facilities in France has been put on hold amid efforts by the government to verify the linkages between AgustaWestland’s parent firm Finmecannica and other European defence companies. The defence ministry earlier this month scrapped a deal with AgustaWestland for procuring 12 VVIP choppers after charging it with breaching contractual obligations.
A high-level team of HAL was scheduled to visit France to visit the facilities of the Rafale fighter jet as part of the ongoing negotiations between the two sides for jointly producing the aircraft but it was cancelled at the last moment, said defence ministry sources in New Delhi. The HAL team was also scheduled to meet other aerospace companies such as Eurocopter and Turbomeca for exploring potential to work on ongoing and future projects, they said. The visit has been put on hold at a time when after cancelling the VVIP chopper deal, India is verifying linkages between European firms and the Finmkecannica group.
The French firm Dassault Aviation was selected by India to supply 126 Rafale combat aircraft to the Indian Air Force as part of its Medium-Multirole Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) deal expected to be worth over Rs 60,000 crore. India and France are holding negotiations on commercial aspects of the deal and have had differences on several points, including the work share for Reliance Industries Limited in the project.
….
After scrapping AgustaWestland’s contract to supply choppers, the defence ministry has also barred Finmecannica and its five other group companies from taking part in its military exhibition Defexpo-2014 in New Delhi. Proposals to procure equipment from its group companies have also been put on hold including one to buy heavy-weight torpedos from WASS to equip the under construction Scorpene submarines in Mumbai.
The defence ministry has also initiated a process to blacklist the Anglo-Italian firm and is holding consultations with law ministry and CBI in this regard before taking a final decision.
rkumarWhat’s a rouge state? French communists? Countries very keen on tinted face powder?
I meant by rouge : imposter, one that assumes false identity or title for the purpose of deception. If someone is following international affairs can figure out in one second which countries I am referring to.
PS: Nothing to do with French nation or people.
rkumarthing is, nobody wants to get on bad terms with the chinese… so, be it french, american or other jets, taiwan has little chance to find anybody willing to sell
–Off Topic–
In case of India, so far we are avoiding a conflict but Chinese are provoking us directly (incursions) and indirectly (passing nuclear & missile technology to rouge states in our neighbourhood). Chinese must not push India to wall where India has no choice but hit back.
Alliances with Japan, Vietnam, deploying missiles, planes and special offensive forces on east border are indicators that we are getting frustrated with Chinese aggression, their ever changing positions, demands, borders and no movement on settlement issues.
I don’t know about FR, US or others but India will seriously consider to help Taiwan if we receive any such request via proper channels.
rkumarTaiwan and Rafale?
Giving the no-go for the F16 upgrade from the DoD, doesn’t anyone see a runway opening for the French jet?
-> One or two squadron in leasing for immediate service entry (standard F2 (reliqua) or F3 not converted to R)
-> First couple of example built in Fr
-> Following example built in India with a gradual indigenous (In/Tw) avionics upgradesNeed b***s of course
But everyone will be happy (MD, the Indian (strategically and their industries), the Asians countries heated-up recently by the ADIZ will see gladly the tension deported for a while from their shoulders and (my own guess) the… US.
Time to brush-up the placards, take one or two Indian official on board and deploy the big circus down there.
Obviously, the politcal side of the equation will have to agree from now to get a free residence on a Martin-Baker seat.
Premature at this stage but if FR move the production line of Rafale to India, price will sink a lot for 350 or more planes. India alone might go for 200+ planes if price is right. But
1. that mean LCA mk2 numbers will suffer.
2. Do India want to take gloves off in relation to China? Arming Taiwan and forming an alliance with Japan.
3. Who is going to finance this Asian cold war as India can’t foot the bill alone? At the end 130b$ of Chinese Budget vs 40b$ of Indian budget. I highly doubt India will accept any direct money aid.
4. Will Japan, South Korea, US and Europe share latest technology without asking a leg or an arm from India?
I think it will be better if BAE do upgrade but that means UK will have to face stiff resistance from China.
rkumarIf the rupee exchange rate worsens against whatever currency the deal is denominated in, the rupee price will go up. Local inflation is not relevant.
A rupee today buys 1.6 cents US. In February 2012 it bought 2.06. If you ordered something for $16 in February 2012, you’d have needed 777 rupees. Today, to buy something for $16 you’d need 1000 rupees. The price has gone up by 28.7% in rupees, with no increase in dollar price.
The Indian government collects taxes in rupees, & spends rupees. Rupee devaluation therefore does have an impact.
Like I wrote earlier and agree partially with your comment, Rupee devaluation will impact the MoD budget. As bids are not submitted in IND Rs but in US $. So ALL players have no bearing on Rupee’s future trends (except MoD has enough funds :dev2:).
It won’t affect the dollar or euro price, but I’ve not seen any credible evidence for a doubling or tripling of that.
Well original contract launch price was 6b$ + 2b$ provisions = 8b$. Today my realistic estimated is 15-18b$ for 2015 contract signing.
rkumarIt should be noted that between Jan 2012 (when Rafale was selected) and now the Indian Rupee has suffered severe depreciation against the euro – you now need almost 30% more rupees to buy the same number of euros you could have bought in Jan 2012. I think that almost all Dassault’s costs are in euros so what counts is the euro value of any deal (whatever currency is used in a sales contract). It looks like the Indian state will need to find a lot more rupees to finance a Rafale deal. That could present problems in terms of getting the deal sanctioned.
Deal price is mostly quoted in US $, so Rupee devaluation should not have any impact. But Euro to US ratio makes a difference. But there again offers are in US $.
Rupee has localised effect on military budget in India and inflation in Europe is hardly 2-3 %. So price increase of 2-3 times due to inflation is just senseless. Price is increasing because local Govt and over all market is shrinking. Companies want to keep their profits as before with lower numbers, which is simply not possible any more.
If Dassault and GoI wants win-win deal than GoI must pay and Dassault must share their know how. I see reluctance on both sides for their own good reasons. HAL can’t absorb the technology, India’s low technical base etc are mute and counter productive. Dassault can try to kill a hen; – which will lay gold egg every day for next 3-4 decades, in a false hope to make a one time big profit.
rkumarI am interested to know what will be the deal price in 2015? If it is anything more then 15-18 b$, it might be better for Dassault and GoI to opt out of these discussions. Why to keep dragging a dead beast?
rkumarWith gems like this. it ain’t hard to do so.
…Deleted offensive quote…
Very informative discussion from highly civilised member.
Liked I said keep your discussion to plane, why are you bothered about us poor Indians? BTW, I have reported your post to Mods.
rkumarIf only it were just that because in some instances it`s actually disinformation.Remember this gem?
“While the Russian version of the FGFA is all-metal, ours will have wings and empennage (vertical and horizontal stabilisers) made of composite materials,” said S. Subrahmanyan, Managing Director of MiG Complex at HAL
People rubbish Russian Deputy Prime Minister Rogozin when he says weird stuff that doesn’t match up with reality too.
In general, I would pay very little heed to anything that comes from the mouth of a high level Russian officials.
rkumarIt is better if people keep discussion on the technical development of PAK-FA and Russia.
Why to drag India with all stupid and undesired comments? It do not add any value to this thread but only derail it.
rkumarIn general, I would pay very little heed to anything that comes from the mouth of a high level Indian official. They tend to be technically clueless and are attempting marketplace bargaining on a billion dollar program.
Of course ignore quotes from high level Indian official as they are mere mortals against forum keyboard generals and ninjas :rolleyes:
rkumarFinally, we will see first official public Arihant model on 26th January, 2014 :applause:
rkumarMy take … there will be no FGFA.
India will not partner but keep close eye on the development of PAK-FA and if it proves a potent fighter and matches our requirements, will buy 144-250 planes (much like Su-30MKI agreement during 2022-2027 time frame). So no question of any direct investment or 50% stake. Their could be minor funding to have customized solutions after planes are inducted by RuAF.
rkumar^
— OT —
French rulers are very colourful themselves. :very_drunk:
rkumarLet me kindly ask you …
Do your comments has anything related to J-15, Russia or China?
Do they add anything to the discussion at hand?
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