At least flex297, somewhat unusualy, is trying to make a rational analysis of the facts rather than the above anti-american BS.

All the usual, “it was America’s fault Saddam was Evil and America made him invade Iran, blah blah blah”. The whole time you avoid the actual issues-

Was Saddam bad for Iraq? answer-yes

Could Iraq have been a better place without him? answer yes

You know with all the blinkered outpourings from this poor misguided example of the peerage system i think we may have found the long missing racehorse Shergar!!!! ( stolen many years ago apparently for ransom and never found) 😀

Yes America had a responsibility for the mess that was Iraq he was after all THEIR dog of war and THEY cut him lose on the ME with their unquestioning support…but their dog turned on them and then they felt they had to discipline him…when that didnt work in the 1st gulf war Bush MK2 decided to finish up what daddy didnt…and “restore ” American pride and gain billions in Oil supplies !

Yes Saddam was bad for Iraq but are seriously trying to say that the morally bankrupt Bush, Chaney and their poodles have improved things??? Get a reality check will you!

Yes Iraq would have been a better place without him but it would be infinitely better without the greedy hands of an oil & power crazy American admin who couldn’t give a damn about the horrendous losses to either the innocent Iraqi civilians or their own troops.

Ohhh the power of the mighty dollar…like any weapon lethal in the wrong hands..

No the corruption in New Orleans was good old southern style long-time democratic party stronghold correcution…nepotism, kickbbacks, a mayor that played the “race” card, crooked cops, ineptness. You know the old fashioned “solid South ” of yellow dog politics.

and there is no corruption/crookedness/scandals in the Republican Party????

Really???? Mark Foley?

[BGoing into the personal attacks again I see…that’s one of your favorite mediums for debate isn’t it?

Not really but then maybe its something i picked up during my time in NY & Boston, seems to be the way a lot of the more ultra rightists behave i thought it might make you more comfortable…sorry if it didnt work…bud :rolleyes:

[I]But then seeing as your medium for debate seems to come from an undying blinkered view that nothing America, or more correctly the right wing bully boys currently in power , does is wrong …well pot kettle & black springs to mind!![/I]

Ooh..interesting..no only do you do personal attacks but you attempt to quote something that I might say in my apparently uneducated, redneck American accents….

[I]Are you saying that everyone who says “y’all” is uneducated and a redneck ??? tut tut tut![/I]

Of course it could be argued that nobody on this Earth actually does care about anyone outside his or her immediate family…..at least the vast majority of the world’s population. It’s only human nature…..

[I]Total bull …if that the way you live life it speaks legions….dont judge the rest of us by these warped standards.[/I

]So because I don’t agree with you and see things from your point of view I’m not able to see for myself, think for myself, or think for myself….how profound of you….

[I]Seeing as you seem to constantly spout the crap that GW and the Reps pump out and ignore the reality of history even very recent history….if the caps fits old boy….[/I]

Apparently I’m a mindless drone who just takes in everything that’s fed to me without question.

Yep… sure does look that way at times

I suppose those are possibilities if it weren’t for the fact that not only am I able to think for myself, I’m one of the few at my age that actually takes part in debates like this to begin with. You may not like my opinions , and I may see things differently from you, but if you’re trying to make yourself feel better by attempting to put me down, it’s only making you look like the arrogant all-knowing *** that some of us are already seeing…..

I would remind you of your past postings about not giving a damn about offending the people of different religions, traditions etc…or for that matter the fact that no one outside your family or immediate circle of friends matters……if you want to talk arrogance go look in the mirror ..

[You don’t live here, so you don’t deal with the disaster that the American media has become. The perception that many people of other nationalities has gotten of the Fox News Channel is so far off base I don’t even know where to begin. If you lived here for a long time, and were able to see the nonsense that is thrown at the American people on a daily basis from certain other news organizations you’d be sickened. Of course you don’t live here so your opinion of a news organization in another country is rather uninformed. I don’t know anymore about the BBC than you do about FNC, so please drop the act like you know what it’s all about.

[B]Faith & begorrah but arnt you the real smart man….but havent you heard about this internet thingy…..

http://abcnews.go.com/

http://www.newyorktimes.com
http://www.washingtonpost.com
http://www.boston.com/news/globe/

and then there’s that funny little box with the switches in the corner…janey but when you switch on the ole electricity its lights up and you see people & all sorts of stuff on the screen………

CNN, CNBC, Bloomberg,CBS,ABC,…

and all this in this poor ole country full of bogs & leprechauns …..WOW !!!!

so dont talk to me like i am some 2nd class citizen of the world buddy!!!

How about getting rid of a man and a regime that had defied the UN for over a decade for starters?

Really…so what about Israel..hasnt it ignored human rights, UN resolutions and frequently disrupted the peace ..are they next or is it a question of more American hyposcrisy?

In response I want to ask you a question. What about the UN? You all are so busy criticizing America that you don’t even take into account the fact that the UN has become completely inept and unable to do anything when it comes to matters like pre-war Saddam-run Iraq. With all of the corruption in its ranks (thank you Mr. Annan), that doesn’t surprise me, but how come I don’t see any criticism of an organization that started out with the noblest of intents and has degraded into a politically run, inept shadow of what it was meant to be……I also ask what you propose should have been done with Saddam. I never thought he would directly threaten America with missiles or anything of the sort, but the fact that he continually defied the UN has to account for something. Is he allowed to ignore the UN with no consequence? If so, I ask why? What’s the point of weapons inspections to begin with if someone can just ignore them?

I They arnt marching into any country that incurs their displeasure and killing civies left right and centre…But then no one here has said the Un is perfect….I think you are developing a bit of a persecution complex here old lad!

I notice that you HAVENT answered the difficult question …what happened to the WMD?

If that’s a cheap shot at me I can only respond by saying that I’m actually a member of the U.S. Air Force, and I’ve been on active duty since June of last year. I’m supposed to start pilot training later this summer, so I can only get over to Iraq or other battle zones when my training is complete and they deploy me. If it makes you feel any better I’ll let you know when I’m stuck in some hellhole.

Stop acting like a huffy , spoilt little boy ….no one wants to see anyone stuck where they are in harms way…or for that matter somewhere where they have no right to be……

Dear god help us, the world & America!!!

Coming from you thats truly laughable.

better laughable than pathetic !!!

I see the vaunted UK manners have failed somewhere…:rolleyes:

I was in the UK in the 70s and experienced some of the anti-terrorism tactics firsthand…they made current U.S. policies seem tame. But to the credit of the UK populace, no one complained much…at least I didn’t hear the “civil liberties” speech you hear in the U.S. everytime something new in enacted.

But with all due respect (something you didn’t give to Phanton) I’ll point out that there is a huge difference between the IRA and Al-Queda in terms of what they’re trying to do and the numbers of ionnocent peoplethey’re willing to kill.

And please spare up the stoic Brit routine…we know you’re made out of tough stuff and survived the blitz. We heard it from our own media after the July tube attacks…and those of us who have studied history will recall that the US got it as pro-British propaganda during WWII (Mrs. Minever on DVD anyone?)

Phantom’s point was it’s easy to gripe about American security procedures…calling them paranoid and such…but when 3000 are killed in one day, it does tend to get your attention. And judging from the lack of care (or support) shown by many members of this forum, I think his point has a lot of validity.

I’ll return the thought to you.:D

What a thoughtful posting…..but disappointed , old boy, you havent taken your buddies to task for their generalisations….why not????
😮

and as regards anti-terrorism in the UK during the 70’s and afterwards…Spent most of them either living in the north or damned close to it..

Dont remember coming across a Quantanimo (forgive the spelling!) though . yes they had detentions without trial for a while ,yes they had trumped up convictions, yes there were state sponsored terrorist groups, yes there were murders by state forces…but they pale in comparison to what has happened and continues to happen in the name of democracy and the ” free world ” in Iraq.

[B]
Funny…..I was thinking the same thing of many of you folks who disagree with me…….what a coincidence.

Well just shows it doesnt allways take GREAT minds to think alike! :diablo:

[/I][Oh give it a rest. I could care less what the rest of the world thinks about America, at least when certain members of it are basing their judgments on false or otherwise twisted information. Ignoring the fact is also popular with some of you. We’re going to do what we have to to ensure that terrorists don’t have an easy time trying to do what they do. You all might as well get used to it.

Yeah yeah yeah…heard it all before ….sure you dont give a damn about what anyone thinks outside your family and friends isnt that what you said before ????? brilliant real good idea that y’all !!

Twisted information? you see thats the difference between us…we can see and read and think…we dont just take in the bull and automatically think its the truth…you should try it sometime!!! :dev2:

Guess you guys just have to pray for our downfall then the world can be cheery and happy and we can all run through meadows while holding hands like it used to be……..

Grow up will you !!! We wont have anywhere to walk with you lot messing up the world!! :dev2:

What’s your deal with Fox News anyway? Do you live here in the States? Fox News is about the only media outlet left where you can actually get straightforward news with accounts from people on all sides of a subject. NBC certainly doesn’t provide that anymore, and CNN doesn’t either.

I suppose I should watch Al-Jazeera to get the right information on a subject that’s completely unbiased shouldn’t I?

Ohhhh please stop ….stop …i cant stand it anymore…if i laugh any harder my sides will fall off….FOXNEWS are we talking about the same organisation ???? No way not even you could come out with something like this!!!:dev2:

How can anyone with even a bit of cop on think something like this in his or her wildest nightmares???

and this is the attitude of a normal American? God ( of whatever hue, belief or type ) help us!!!

I don’t normally post on this forum but I thought I’d point out the following in Post #77 Phantom II says

“There will ALWAYS be terrorists. They have always existed and they always will. If America had never invaded Iraq or Afghanistan, there would still be just as many terrorists…”

This is to all intents and purposes an admission that US foreign policy is a total failure…. unless of course the real motivation was oil and not the so called ‘War on Terror’.

Steve.

Well said,

WE might even see P3 and his cohorts opening their eyes even further and seeing that American FX policy has not only failed to reduce the number of terrorist recruits but actually increased them and as such the danger we are all in for the foreseeable future. but then maybe not the glaringly obvious is all too often clouded over in FoxNews land !

Unfortunately some of our American contributors , including those who are domiciled in the various puppet states near and far, have the unfortunate habit of ignoring the obvious , twisting facts and exhibiting the kind of double standards that they so hate in others.

Bullying, hectoring, selfishness, my country right or wrong…hardly the greatest example of the power of democracy or is this the true face of what was once a great nation held in the highest esteem by the freedom loving peoples of the world?

but then with adult literacy at less than 50% …..Doesnt look like the weak and needy can depend on the Good ole USA even when it comes to their own.