[QUOTE=PhantomII]”Thank you for indirectly calling me crazy……………”

not crazy, either indirectly or otherwise….

just someone who should maybe think again about his participation in a war machine!

“In any case yes, they have done a psychological examination on me, but it’s more along the lines or preparing you for the fact that you may encounter death and destruction. “

thanks for explaining that,….

not that it surprises but arnt they worried that attitudes held on a personal level may effect how the individual reacts in certain circumstances?

“No type of program is going to get rid of the hate welled up inside someone if they wish to keep it…….it’s just human nature. The U.S. military wouldn’t be alone in having at least a few people who probably shouldn’t have the power to kill.”

Well actually …..

IT CAN !!! but you have missed the point, i would prefer to see an assessment of the suitability of the person and if they are found wanting then their participation in that or indeed future missions should be questioned.

“With that being said let me make it clear I would never attack an innocent person or degrade/humiliate them in anyway. My dislike for Arabic Muslims would never affect the way I do my job, and I would treat someone of that ethnic/religious background just as I would anyone else. My internal feelings are kept to myself and I would never let them show in a serious situation such as war. “

But you cannot know what way you will react under pressure or what will be very different circumstances…

Every single person is capable of the most inhuman treatment of others in certain circumstances…no one can know what or where this may occur, it might never happen in an individuals life. But as someone who already doesnt like Arabs/Muslims and will prob find themselves under immense pressure and in a lot of danger….who is to say what might happen..

Can i refer you to a very well known experiment that was carried out to show what people, under a lot less pressure than a soldier in a War, can resort to;

http://www.prisonexp.org/

“I’m sorry you all disagree with my feelings, but there’s nothing I can do to change them at this point. I’m willing to change, but it will take some convincing on the part of others. Does the fact I don’t like them make me an evil person? “

your feelings are yours ….

only you can change them, and perhaps only with personal experience.Just bear in mind that the vast majority of Muslims or Arabs are decent family loving people who havent a bad bone in their bodies, they just want to live and love their friends and family like you do.

and no you arnt evil, maybe just a little naive to believe the stuff that is pumped out on Tv or in the papers.

originally posted by Phantom II ;

“I get criticized for stereotyping yet you’re doing the same thing…….assuming all of thise in the U.S. military share the same views as I do. My choice to go into the military had nothing to do with Islam and Arabs and terrorism and all of that. My views on Arabic Muslims only represent me and not necessarily anyone I work with. Everyone in the military is an individual and has his or her own opinion about various topics. Mine just happens to be what it is about Arabic Muslims. I could talk to many people in the military who have no problem with them whatsoever. “

I think you have missed the point..as well as my use of the word ” IF “…

My concern is that someone with the sort of problem that you have stated you have with the native people of the region to which you are going as a soldier…someone who may have the power of life and death over those same people?

Has the US military no programme of psychological accessment of those that it is putting in harms ways? doesnt it care what sort of mental strain it will be putting people under and what their present state of mind/attitude is ?

Now dont get me wrong i am NOT saying that you will be spraying bullets left right and centre and killing innocents all over the place…

but i do wonder what effect this environment will have on those who go there without sufficient preparation before hand .

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Pope says:

“The emperor comes to speak about the issue of jihad, holy war,” the pope said. “He said, I quote, ‘Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached.’ “

Parts of the Muslim world decide to lash out in, you guessed it, a violent fashion.

My question is, when simple words or artwork bring a violent response, how can one legitimately criticise the entirety of what the man said? First off, he’s a religious figure, and as such is probably expected to speak out against aspects of other religions that he disagrees with. Secondly, when people characterize Islam as a violent religion and then the response is violence, they have nobody to blame but themselves.

Now, I am in no way saying I agree with the man. But think about this for a second. “Pope says we’re violent! We can’t have that! Let’s go bomb something!” Do these people not realize that they’re playing right into the Western perception and fueling the fire?

and so are we………

We have to remember that as far as some Muslims are concerned the Western world doesnt give a damn for their sensibilities and the only way that we do take any notice is when Violence is used.. this is the way it has been for years and we in our arrogance and false superiority ignored what was brewing up.

and dont forget the extremists love this..its the best recruitment poster they could hope for…. grow hatred and they can grow alongside it…

anyway look at the way the christian church expanded in its conquests of the new world…ask the Inca how they felt after Catholic Spain arrived..Ask the Muslims how they felt when the Crusade arrived on their shores…Ask thise who suffered under the reformation in Europe how they felt as their fellow christians burned them at the stake…

God’s rothweiler needs to remember his churches history before he starts throwing stones in a glasshouse!!

Originally posted by Phantom II;
“I mean come on……an Italian nun? Killed? Because of something the Pope said? That’s ridiculous!

And armed Palestinians attacking churches?

Come on guys something is not adding up here……

Qatar-based Islamic scholar Yusuf al-Qaradawi said the pope should retract the speech, and speaking on al-Jazeera television, he called for a day of “peaceful and rational” anger on Friday. The Egyptian-born Sunni cleric, who is considered an influential voice in the Islamic world, has called Palestinian suicide bomb attacks justifiable.

I love this part from the article…..first of all there is the “peacful & rational anger”…..what exactly is that? Can anyone tell me?

Justifiable attacks against churches? We’re not talking about an “innocent” Palestinian blowing himself up trying to take out an Israeli Humvee……we’re talking about this same “innocent” Palestinian TERRORIST attacking a church which might have people who are actually innocent inside.

All because of some words………”

Unfortunately you will find this kind of extremism present in every faith…Ethnic cleansing doesnt just extend to different faiths ie Christians against Muslims..it happens within Religions as well;

We had ethnic cleansing in Northern Ireland in the late 60’s and it went on in both communities…check out the aforementioned Dr.Ian Paisley if you have an hour or six!!!

Catholic and Protestant churches were burned down ( my father at one stage stood guard over our local church to try and prevent attack ), clerics beaten and in some cases murdered, and that is ignoring the number of innocents murdered in horrific circumstances for their religion….BY OTHER CHRISTIANS!!!

and some of the diatribes have to be heard to be believed…and it STILL goes on..

and all this in a ” Civilised ” western European democracy???

and this is without even looking at what has occured elsewhere in the name of religion…

Words can kill dont let the old ” Sticks & stones may break my bones….” rhyme fool you!!

I wonder what would be the reaction amongst some of the Fundamentalist Christian churches in America if a senior Muslim cleric was perceived to have made disparaging remarks about Christ ??

originally posted by Phantom II;

“Personally, this American wants to see his country get away from the Middle East entirely. They don’t like us, and I find myself very uneasy around Arabs in general (I’m sorry I can’t help it, but they just make me nervous….would I ever deliberately attack or harm an Arab? No, not at all. They just make me nervous is all I’m saying. I’m sure many of you will be offended by that, and I apologize in advance, but that’s how I feel, and I can’t help that….). I suppose it’s just a product of the times I’ve grown up and aged in. Perhaps events in the future can change my way of thinking. I’m willing to change, but I’ve gotta have good reason as most people do to change their opinion of a given subject. “

apart from the worrying aspect of this attitude in someone going out to Iraq , maybe it serves as an illustration of WHY america is held in contempt and in some cases hatred in many parts of the world…

If Phantom feels this way after the events of the attacks on USS Cole, the Marines in Lebanon and 9/11 ( all horrendous reprehensable incidents ) how then can we expect people to react “normally” when they have been on the receiving end of attacks from the US (Iraq ’91 and at present) , Iraq ( attacking Iran while receiving backing from the US ), Isreal ( need i say anything?) ….and this has been going on for years ….

Thanks to US foreign policy we are all going to reap the harvest sown by various US admins & Presidents….GOD HELP US ALL !!

I think one of the key things this thread illustrates; is how the radicalisation of some groups within Islam against the West, is creating an equal and opposite radicalisation of some groups in the West agianst Islam.

The biggest problem is that few people have recognised this very worrying and exceptionally dangerous state of affairs.

Steve.

such groups have been present in our western societies for many many years.
They survive on division and hatred.

look at some of the extremest parties in the Uk and the way some of them have survived through what you would think would have been pretty barren years…We still have the vitriol of Ian Paisleys DUP and his personal tirades against those of the Roman Catholic faith….with some of his statements i cannot imagine how he has stayed out of jail for incitement to hatred!!

And now Right wing extremists are growing in power again in Germany….

What I can’t understand about Global warming, is that here in the south east the weather remains rather pleasant. Yet elsewhere the weather is usually pretty bad. Does anyone know what’s causing this strange state of affairs? 🙂 Perhaps Hurrifan might be able too answer this question….
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ME???? what would i know??? :dev2:

Havent a clue…but reckon a few friends from Yorkshire would use words that i wouldnt repeat!!!!! 😀

its a bit wierd isnt it…over here the WX has apparently always been a bit better in Wexford/Waterford..” The sunny south east” …compared to the rest of us…always seems to rain when i am down there!!!! 🙁

Sorry too tell you this but there is another Hurricane further south heading for the Azores, I hope it dosn’t come this way or we are in big trouble. Keep your fingers crossed. 😮
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oh great..thanks a bunch….JEEEZ arnt you lucky that i aint the type to shoot the messenger!!! GW wouldnt let you away with it!!!

WX warning in place for Nortern Ireland…Gale force winds, sea flooding,Rain, watch where you park your car ….